• Raebxeh@hexbear.net
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      11 months ago

      There’s a reason Klan leadership pivoted into writing esoteric and supernatural “nonfiction” a couple decades back. That shit is insidious.

    • DamarcusArt@lemmygrad.ml
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      11 months ago

      I’ve tried to explain to my lib friends that psuedo history isn’t “harmless fun” like they say it is, but they just can’t see the very direct connection between “Europeans are a superior race who come from Atlantis” and nazi shit. I wish I lived in that nice little bubble they do, where the ills of the world don’t directly affect them and get to be just another spectacle. Caring about things is exhausting.

    • TraumaDumpling@hexbear.net
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      11 months ago

      Abrahamic Jehovah: red/brown colored skin (like a jasper and a sardine stone), glowing red-hot like heated iron, ‘wooly’ white hair

      whites: this is literally me

          • anarchoilluminati [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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            11 months ago

            I wouldn’t take the book of Revelations as being representative of anything shared in the ‘Abrahamic’ religions, or even Christianity, much less a description of God.

            I’ve never heard of this site before so I’m not sure how credible it is, but quite a few of the verses in this list have absolutely nothing to do with describing God’s “physical” appearance, especially in context, so I also wouldn’t put too much trust into their claim.

            Truth is there is no real Biblical basis for such description, even including any of Jesus if I recall correctly.

            Also, the term Jehovah was just kinda made up in Germany. That name also doesn’t exist Biblically.

            • GarbageShoot [he/him]@hexbear.net
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              They appeared to use the NIV translation, which you may object to but is also easily one of the most common versions. The original King James Version reads very similarly, as does the NKJV.

              There are definitely multiple descriptions of Jesus (you can see people mention them in the dumb “Was Jesus white?” arguments), and here is a collection of relevant passages.

              Jehovah is just a lightly Germanicized version of Yahweh, look at the consonants: J [which is pronounced as an English Y]; H; V [can be either a V or an F in English phonetics, probably a V here]; H, like Yahweh being YHWH. Jesus isn’t what Jesus was actually named (it was Yeshua), these are just things that happen in translation.

              I do agree that the description is probably being applied to Christ, though. Not that Revelations would give a historically accurate view, but theologically Revelations is canonical so a Christian is in no standing to deny it.

              • anarchoilluminati [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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                11 months ago

                They appeared to use the NIV translation, which you may object to but is also easily one of the most common versions. The original King James Version reads very similarly, as does the NKJV.

                Yeah, I didn’t object to the translation used. I studied Ancient Greek so I can and have read the Bible as well as other Ancient Greek philosophy texts in their original language, so please believe me I’m really just treating this as a discussion of ancient literature. No different to LotR or GoT lore. And while I prefer the NRSV despite it having translation issues as well, the NIV wasn’t used by that site. It used and only used the ESV, which is common among hardline Right-wing Christian fundamentalist evangelicals, and was another reason red flags went up for that site. That being said, their translation of that specific verse is almost identical to the NRSV, since the ESV is based off the RSV, so there isn’t really an issue on that point.

                There are definitely multiple descriptions of Jesus (you can see people mention them in the dumb “Was Jesus white?” arguments), and here is a collection of relevant passages.

                Thanks for linking that! I read it and it comes from a Catholic source, so take that how you will, but it itself says at the start that

                There is no physical description of Christ in any of the Gospels or New Testament letters.

                The rest is either admission that people choose to imagine Jesus however they like or using Jewish scripture (written hundreds or thousands of years before the alleged person of Jesus existed) to guess how Jesus might have looked due to retrospective ‘prophecy’. It also cites a Letter and the Shroud of Turin, both questionable in authenticity, and then ends with the use of the noble science of phrenology to suggest Jesus was a genius because he was big brained. Not saying people don’t use these as bases for descriptions, they definitely do, because then we do have Nazis making false claims about White Jesus but the Bible itself has no direct or clear physical descriptions of Jesus. Best guess is Jesus probably looked like one of the many Palestinians being genocided at the moment.

                Jehovah is just a lightly Germanicized version of Yahweh, look at the consonants: J [which is pronounced as an English Y]; H; V [can be either a V or an F in English phonetics, probably a V here]; H, like Yahweh being YHWH. Jesus isn’t what Jesus was actually named (it was Yeshua), these are just things that happen in translation.

                Yup, that is true.

                I do agree that the description is probably being applied to Christ, though. Not that Revelations would give a historically accurate view, but theologically Revelations is canonical so a Christian is in no standing to deny it.

                That’s cool if you read that as being Jesus, I’m not really contesting that and I have no issue with it. The text itself isn’t clear so there’s no way of knowing for sure what is being referred to there. It’s open to interpretation. And, that’s true, Revelations is canon but it was unpopular or rejected even when it became canon and continued to be questioned and was even rejected by Martin Luther thousands of years later in his Preface. Whether a Christian has standing to deny it is a theological question and I don’t have authority to answer it but I think there is good precedent for it, and from a purely critical perspective there’s no reason one book written by one guy that has no relation to any other texts should necessarily be considered a foundational text to the religion. My point was just that taking Revelations at face value, given the above, to make the claim that it speaks for the Abrahamic religions as such on the subject of God’s appearance is not accurate, academically nor theologically.

            • TraumaDumpling@hexbear.net
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              11 months ago

              i literally provided a description froma version of the bible, dont pretend like your favorite interpretation of an appearanceless god is the only interpretation that exists. i was using jehovah ironically as an english pronunciation of YHWH or whatever the sky wizard OCs name is supposed to ‘ackshually’ be. i dont ‘put too much trust’ in anyones claims about bronze age war deities, because i dont believe in them, stone age religions are much cooler and we all know Manicheanism is the One True Religion anyway

              • anarchoilluminati [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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                11 months ago

                I’m not pretending my favorite interpretation is the only one that exists? I never said that and I’m very open to discussing different interpretations. But taking Revelations at face value as an authority on anything isn’t very well supported academically or theologically either and that site’s list of verses didn’t even match the alleged theme so I was kinda doubting its credibility. It’s even open to interpretation whether that verse is referring to God or someone/thing else. Just saying, Revelations sucks. Its ‘interpretation’ of God’s appearance in those verses, if we assume it’s God, literally doesn’t exist anywhere else in the Bible, which is a significant point because it is not a view shared with either Judaism or Islam, nor even within Christianity generally. So, it’s just one book’s interpretation and one which was unpopular. I don’t think that justifies extrapolating it to make a claim about the “Abrahamic” God’s appearance.

                Anyway, not trying to argue with you or rehash the classic internet religion debate, and I’m sorry if it came off as an attack but you mentioned a description of God’s alleged appearance in “Abrahamic” religions, in what I know was a joke, but then someoned asked about its validity Biblically and then you responded with something not quite accurate Biblically speaking so I just wanted to add a point of clarification. Maybe it would’ve just been better to respond to GarbageShoot but just thought it would be good to keep the thread linear.

                • TraumaDumpling@hexbear.net
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                  11 months ago

                  ‘not quite accurate’ lmfaoooo its literally from the bible, its literally as accurate as anything else from the bible

                • TraumaDumpling@hexbear.net
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                  further excerpts which attribute features of appearance to god:

                  Exodus 33:18-22

                  And he said, I beseech thee, shew me thy glory.

                  19 And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the Lord before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy.

                  20 And he said, Thou canst not see my FACE: for there shall no man see me, and live.

                  21 And the Lord said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock:

                  22 And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by:

                  23 And I will take away את my hand, and you shall see my BACK PARTS: but my FACE shall not be seen.

                  Daniel 7:9

                  9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of Days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.

                  Revelation 4:2-3

                  2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.

                  3 And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald.

                  Genesis 1:26

                  And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth.

                  26 And above the dome over their heads there was something like a throne, in appearance like sapphire,[e] and seated above the likeness of the throne was something that seemed like a human form. 27 Upward from what appeared like the loins I saw something like gleaming amber, something that looked like fire enclosed all around, and downward from what looked like the loins I saw something that looked like fire, and there was a splendor all around. 28 Like the bow in a cloud on a rainy day, such was the appearance of the splendor all around. This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the Lord.

                  https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ezek.+1-3%3B+8%3A1–3%3B+10&version=NRSVUE

  • Dolores [love/loves]@hexbear.net
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    11 months ago

    refuses to allow genetic testing of early emperors

    shows a picture of a fucking taklamakan mummy. mmmm yes so prehistoric China had a claim in modern Xinjiang then? lenin-sure genetic testing is just elevated phrenology anyway, all it actually tells you is what groups/modern people are related to a particular corpse, or group of corpses. it can help identify some movements of people but provides zero insight into the culture or language or social status of the people. there is no white people gene, we don’t actually know how mummies looked or skulls looked in life.

    also there aren’t any verified early emperor burials what the fuck are they talking about. the ban was on all kinds of archaeological corpses because westoids kept fucking stealing samples to do phrenology with

    but like the second one has to be bait what self-respecting white supremacist wouldn’t say something like the coliseum and just claim it’s more impressive than the pyramids???

  • CloutAtlas [he/him]@hexbear.net
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    11 months ago

    Genghis Khan? White.

    Xerxes? White.

    Jesus? White

    Mohammed? White.

    Sargon of Akkad? White.

    The entire population of Australopithecus? Believe it or not, white.

  • BodyBySisyphus [he/him]@hexbear.net
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    11 months ago

    clown-to-clown-communication

    Atlantians were proto whites/proto Faustians. I’m assuming that’s what Spengler says in Early Days of World History

    It’s more complicated than that. European cultures begin as an alchemical merging of Atlantean and Turanian elements.

    Turanian? I would’ve thought Nemedian or Poitainian over them. Aquilonian even.

    clown-to-clown-conversation

    internet-delenda-est

    • the_itsb [she/her, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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      Turanian? I would’ve thought Nemedian or Poitainian over them. Aquilonian even.

      what do any of these words mean

      I don’t want to go down a white supremacist Google hole, which I fully expect to happen if I just search them blindly

      could someone who is a little more online please tell me wtf any of those proper nouns mean?

      • PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmygrad.ml
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        what do any of these words mean

        Conan universe setting from this essay. Though contrary to what you might expect, it served (especially outside anglo world) to ridicule those XIX century chud myths by turning them into full fiction. Like i never meet anyone seriously proposing bullshit like hyperborea, atlantis and antediluvian world seriously since everyone know its from book about Arnold Schwarzenegger.

      • Dolores [love/loves]@hexbear.net
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        11 months ago

        Turanian

        my best guess on this is that they’re substituting “aryan” for turanian to avoid the nazi-coding. Turan is an iranian term for east-of-iran based on a legendary figure. as indo-iranian(aryan) split into iranian and indo-aryan in the general area of Turan i suppose the nazis probably think there was a central-asian atlantis of white people over there or something

        the other two terms first results are from conan the barbarian lmao

        • the_itsb [she/her, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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          11 months ago

          thank you, that was sadly illuminating

          seems like all the weird, vaguely shitty dudes I knew in my 20s all somehow banded together to form an openly shitty, truly reprehensible club

          • Dolores [love/loves]@hexbear.net
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            i’m probably giving them too much credit based on the conan references in the other terms, lol. a guy makes some dumb books that reference quack historiography and a few decades later a handful of nazis think its gospel lmao

          • Dolores [love/loves]@hexbear.net
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            11 months ago

            there’s like nothing alike between the ashina and osmanuglu but it’s funny an early 20th century person tried to relate them, lmao

            • PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmygrad.ml
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              He didn’t really put any thought in it since iirc something like one story happens there for a brief time, it’s mostly aesthetic torn between “ancient nomadic people” and “mysterious oriental empire”

              And you don’t even need to go to early XX cetury person, for some reason i see every now and then in the internet people entartaining panturkic ideas who also do this, but in all seriousness.

      • BurgerPunk [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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        11 months ago

        I recognize some from Robert E. Howard’s Conan stories. He drew inspiration for the fictional setting from the popular pseudo-history of the antediluvian world (before the biblical flood) which included ideas about Atlantis with helping of race science.

        I’m guessing white supremacist are taking long forgotten fake history from like the 20’s at face value shrug-outta-hecks

    • DamarcusArt@lemmygrad.ml
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      I’ve often wondered how all of this nonsense could work when it is all inherently contradictory, now I know. They just have a conversation where they use fancy words to sound smart without knowing what any of these words mean.

      Parrots are better for conversation than these bozos. At least a parrot can be nice and direct and isn’t deeply insecure about their intelligence and making it everyone else’s problem.

      • Raebxeh@hexbear.net
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        There’s also a thing where a bunch of new age authors will quote each other circularly and begin to talk with one another, so you can find a “consensus” by sticking to certain corners of new age thought. Everyone being obsessed with Atlanteans as a secret precursor to modern civilization is actually a good example of this. There are also a lot of cryptofash along the writers for that genre, so there’s an interest convergence driven by the fascist agenda. The pyramids being built by white people is a good example of that one.

    • BurgerPunk [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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      Between the time when the oceans drank Atlantis and the rise of the sons of Arius, there was an age undreamed of. Unto this Conan, destined to bear the jeweled crown of Aquilonia upon a troubled brow. It is I, his chronicler, who alone can tell you of this saga. Let me tell you of the days of high adventure

  • Feinsteins_Ghost [he/him]@hexbear.net
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    I mean, on the one hand i couldn’t care less about imperial bloodlines. Its all a bunch of made up bullshit. Why not test them?

    On the other hand, idgaf about China not allowing testing, either. They’re Chinas mummies or corpses or bodies or whatever. They can do whatever they want with their silly imperial nonsense ideas.

    Test them. Or dont. what the fuck does it actually matter to anyone?

    • zifnab25 [he/him, any]@hexbear.net
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      I mean, on the one hand i couldn’t care less about imperial bloodlines.

      No, no, no. Hear me out. Consider a subpopulation of people that exist in a tiny private city, never leave the house, demand everyone wait on them hand-and-foot like gods, and then repeatedly get rolled by “primitive” neighbors every time they want to do some light imperialism on their borders.

      Test them. Or dont.

      “You won’t let us test your emperors!” is the thin edge of the pseudo-science gobblegock edge, wherein some whiny cranks at The University of Jesus Iowa with PhDs in Time Cube Maths send threatening letters to the local Chinese consulate demanding first class tickets to the Beijing Museum Of Fake Science to debunk claims made about how many angels can dance on the end of a pin.

      Its just another Alex Jones “We Have The Documents” rant.

    • DragonBallZinn [he/him]@hexbear.net
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      11 months ago

      I’d call white people “orcs” but they’d take it as a compliment.

      grillman: “Why thank you, we are a proud warrior race after all.”

      I’d call them ‘elves’ but they’d probably take that as an even bigger compliment.

    • jonne@infosec.pub
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      11 months ago

      Because they might discover that a good chunk of Palestinians are descendants of people who were there before the diaspora every happened.

      • keepcarrot [she/her]@hexbear.net
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        (I meant why would the Chinese Emperor’s bodies not being allowed to be tested be proof of China’s perfidy while Israel’s one goes unexamined?)

        • jonne@infosec.pub
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          I mean, I don’t even know if this is true in either case anyway, but yeah, when an ally does it, it’s great, when China does it, it’s proof they’re an evil regime.

  • ExotiqueMatter@lemmygrad.ml
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    11 months ago

    When you sprinkle a bit of great man theory on top of your racism:

    « The emperor was white for real! What? What do you mean the emperor didn’t build the entire Chinese civilization all by himself? He was the emperor I tell you THE EMPEROR! »