Imma scurry back to my radical left safe space. Personally i know all ya’ll are based, though. Communism and marxist-leninism is still a bad word in centrist lemmy spaces, apparently.

Original post: https://feddit.ch/post/4129197

Original comment:

Can someone explain like what are the lemmy devs political stance?

They’re tankies, ie radical communists who support authoritarian regimes like North Korea and the CP, and fully support Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. The devs also onboarded someone who openly said many times on October 8th that “all Israelis are valid targets”, “anything that moves and isn’t Palestinian is a valid target” and “there’s no such thing as an Israeli civilian” and he’s still in their team. On their own instance lemmy.ml (their choice of the mI TLD is a reference to Marxism-Leninism), if you mention the Tiananmen massacre you get banned for “orientalism”, and if you say that Hamas are terrorists you also get banned for “bothsidesing (sic)”.

Does that leave a stain on Lemmy, the open-source project? Yes, for sure, it leaves Lemmy with a very questionable governance, and weird decisions like the absence of any prioritization of work on moderation tools and the very weird and completely random fact that they suddenly disabled sign-up captchas last summer leading to a bot infestation of most instances. Coincidentally, tankie instances like lemmygrad and hexbears rely on brigading, bots, and cyber-harassment to spread their poison, and strong moderation tools would hinder them a lot. Now does that make it impossible for Lemmy to succeed? No, it’s again an open-source project, and it can be forked away from the tankies at any time. In fact, there’s even a highly credible rewrite in Java currently whose goal is to be 100% API-compatible with Lemmy: https://sublinks.org/ (see the announcement here: https://lemmy world/post/11005411 )

Reply:

I don’t think forking lemmy is a good idea honestly, let’s stick to what we have and what currently works well. The beauty of lemmy is that, you can make an account on a hexbear/lemmygrad instance to see what’s up, and switch back to your main instance with more reasonable, less extreme content. But also I vibe with some of lemmygrads less delusional communities. I’m on dbzero’s server who federates with hexbear but not with lemmygrad and i find that to be a nice balance of content. I find it reductive to say that anything on hebear/lemmygrad is “tanky” shit, because there are some legitimately great communities in either one (hebear, for instance, has communities about socialism and marxist philosophies, which I find to be intellectually stimulating and not at all radical, though some would disagree. And chapotraphouse has got some spicy leftist memes)

True, sympathizing with terrorists and supporting Russia’s invasion of Ukraine is a bad look, but there’s good info on the radical leftist corner of the internet. Of course some people post insane shit to get attention and that’s unfortunate. But I believe these instances at its heart safe spaces for Marxists, Marxist thought and the growing global leftist movement which I personally believe is a harbinger for change in the world

I say let’s cut the bad shit and preserve the good bits instead of throwing out the entire block of cheese

  • GarfGirl@hexbear.netEnglish
    85·
    9 months ago

    intellectually stimulating and not at all radical

    damn, we really got called libs smh

  • Awoo [she/her]@hexbear.netEnglish
    75·
    9 months ago

    and fully support Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.

    Fuck offfffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff

    • CTHlurker [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
      75·
      9 months ago

      Anything that isn’t SLAVA UKRAINA - VIVA BANDERA is considered to be Putin-bootlicking. Trying to explain context for why we think the way we do means that we are bots or paid operatives by a foreign agency, since obviously anyone disagreeing with the current line of the State Department is an enemy and therefore must be defeated,

      • Awoo [she/her]@hexbear.netEnglish
        71·
        9 months ago

        We are literally the ones that want the war ended the soonest, these fuckheads want the war to last forever, they care ONLY about its ability to function as a proxy war against russia to harm russia, they don’t care how many lives it costs so long as it hurts russia. They do not give a fuck about people, the real families being destroyed by this (on both sides), they only care about harm they can do to russia.

        They are ultranationalists and warmongering monsters. I hate every single last one of them.

  • Tommasi [she/her]@hexbear.netEnglish
    71·
    9 months ago

    hexbear, for instance, has communities about socialism and marxist philosophies, which I find to be intellectually stimulating and not at all radical

    walter-breakdown

    • PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmygrad.mlEnglish
      26·
      9 months ago

      Wait, hexbear have profeudal or libertarian (i’m repeating myself) communities? What else would be “not that radical” for this kind of reactionary brain?

      • mathemachristian [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
        26·
        9 months ago

        I think it means “opinions similar to my own”. A could-be communist might share a lot of communist opinions based on common sense. You don’t need to have read Marx to know that capitalism requires infinite growth which collides with reality. But they will look for any way that avoids violence, which is normal I think, violence is a last resort. While their cognitive-dissonance remains within tolerable levels they will not get radicalized however. Since they’re not radical, opinions similar to their own can’t be “that radical” either.

        That’s how it was for me at least before I got radicalized. I related to a lot of stuff here, the more I related the more the cognitive dissonance grew. Which is kind of similar to how I figured out I had ADD actually, all the adhd memes were just way too relatable.

        • PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmygrad.mlEnglish
          12·
          9 months ago

          And then you ask those “not radical” types about tsar Nicholas and watch their nonviolent relatableness expand to include самодержавие.

          • mathemachristian [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
            10·
            9 months ago

            Oh yeah, nonviolent as in no violence from/to them. Dronebombing is taken as a regrettable but necessary measure in order to maintain “nonviolence”.

  • quarrk [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
    70·
    9 months ago

    They’re tankies, ie radical communists who support authoritarian regimes like North Korea and the CP, and fully support Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.

    Libs thinking about worldviews in this backward way is a reflection of how their brains work.

    First pick a team, then embrace the ideology.

    A liberal cannot comprehend theory forming the basis of a worldview. Hence the the reduction of all radical theory to “they support the evil dictators!!!”

    • aldalire@lemmy.dbzer0.comOPEnglish
      49·
      9 months ago

      Americans sure do love their daily dose of cable news. It’s impossible to form critical thought when one is connected to the capitalist propaganda machine lol.

      China bad, north korea bad, cuba bad, on repeat on the TV, because they offer alternatives to the current capitalist revgime and we sure as hell don’t want our overworked and underpaid proles to get any ideas

  • CannotSleep420@lemmygrad.mlEnglish
    66·
    9 months ago

    I can see people are still pissed at me for saying that literally all Israelis are valid targets for killing. I still stand by that position and wish all zionists a very die.

    • Aquilae [he/him, they/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
      29·
      9 months ago

      The adults are “civilians” about as much as nazi Germans were. Half of them are IDF conscripts, and most of the other half are fascists just the same.

      I feel bad for the children caught in this, but Hamas has done a far better job avoiding killing them than “israel” has even with their inferior and less precise equipment.

    • Sephitard9001 [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
      6·
      9 months ago

      oooooouuuu the poor lil’ Israeli civilians were FORCED out of the safety of Israel to settle on dangerous frontier land because their ancestral homes of New Jersey and Europe weren’t safe enough. They simply HAVE to kill Palestinians and Gazans because they are human shields of Hamas, they aren’t FORCED to live there or anything like that unlike our precious whi- uh indigenous Israelis

  • PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmygrad.mlEnglish
    60·
    9 months ago

    Isn’t that the dude who regularily get temp bans on multiple lemmy instances for being douchebag, being racist and posting weird passive-aggressive concern troll atacks on lemmy itself?

  • EmmaGoldman [she/her, comrade/them]@hexbear.netMEnglish
    54·
    9 months ago

    Literally where are the bots? I don’t touch federated stuff outside of hexbear and lemmygrad and I really don’t see any bots.

    I’m sure they just mean “people who disagree with me must be paid to post and thus are robots as they are less than people”

  • TreadOnMe [none/use name]@hexbear.netEnglish
    52·
    9 months ago

    “I find Marxism to be intellectually stimulating and not at all radical.” Ok Kautsky, you don’t have to brag about not thinking about the implications of ideas being true.

  • KobaCumTribute [she/her]@hexbear.netEnglish
    47·
    9 months ago

    Lmao I think I got into it with that exact same dipshit on reddit before. The exact wording and grievances he’s rambling about give it away. He is extremely mad that the lemmy devs called him a racist for his racist takes and he’s been on a one man crusade against them ever since.

    • edge [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
      23·
      9 months ago

      Under the current definition of FOSS, disallowing companies that collaborate with genociders from using your code is considered bad. A few years ago the maintainer of some library decided to change their license to disallow companies working with ICE from using the library. The “FOSS community” freaked out.

      Eric Raymond, the founder of the Open Source Initiative and one of the authors of the standard-bearing Open Source Definition, said Kyle’s decision violated the fifth clause of the definition, which prohibits discrimination against people or groups.

      “Blocking Microsoft from using your software to organize concentration camps on the border is discrimination, actually.”

      He didn’t even have to go with that angle. Rules 1, 2, and 3 are already about not prohibiting anyone from using your software for whatever they want in whatever way they want. Also rule 6 is “No Discrimination Against Fields of Endeavor” which effectively amounts to “nooooo, you have to let them use your software for genocide”.

      So yeah, we need a major redefinition of the term.

      Side note: I wonder how they would feel about an official bad guy using their code. How would they react to “the ebil see see pee” using their code to manage the “Uyghur genocide” (de-radicalization program in which zero people have died)?

      • CarbonScored [any]@hexbear.netEnglish
        11·
        9 months ago

        This seems to happen to all organizations of the kind. Back in the day Mozilla was solely a non-profit focused on promoting open and free software. Now it has people with very silly large salaries, a desire to promote ‘commercial collaboration’ and literally forces ads into its browser.

        Every single one gets creeped into and taken over by capital, and consequently made utterly pointless. The way capitalism neuters its own productive forces is a continuing internal contradiction.

      • combat_brandonism [they/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
        9·
        9 months ago

        Eric Raymond, the founder of the Open Source Initiative

        Look I don’t disagree FOSS nerds suck and were probably pitching a fit too but Eric Raymond’s a misogynist randian lolbertarian and the OSI is a capital-friendly recuperation of open source software from copyleft (FOSS) radicals.

        • edge [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
          9·
          9 months ago

          I had no idea who he was, but that sounds about right.

          But even copyleft requires you to allow anyone to use it for any purpose, including concentration camps and genocide.

          • combat_brandonism [they/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
            8·
            9 months ago

            Absolutely and I’m sure there were copyleft zealots backing Raymond on that point as well.

            I try to avoid those discussions (besides calling out the bad actors and their interests), because at the end of the day licensing relies on a jurisprudence system set up for the benefit of the boug to have any effect, whether that’s enforcing copyleft or provisions preventing use in harmful industries. Master’s tools and all that.