I don’t think I really need to explain much, their admins are transphobic. stalin-smokin

https://hexbear.net/post/1587342

Snowe, an admin, complained about a transgender person being offended over being misgendered. Ategon made an apology post but keeps snowe on, no public apologies from snowe to the transgender people affected.

Textbook very-smart

note: conversation about Ategon’s use of the word triggered edited out, might be misunderstanding, need clarified

    • kristina [she/her]@hexbear.netOPEnglish
      45·
      6 months ago

      yeah, not meaning to do that on purpose, im well aware, im just a sleepy lady and didnt want to type much but i have duped myself once again sleepi

        • oregoncom [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
          25·
          6 months ago

          programming should be a profession in the way writing is. The only reason it’s not a universal skill is because the field is full of manchildren who either fetishize shitty technology from the 70s for aesthetic reasons or don’t actually know how to code so they build 15 layers of abstractions on top of eachother and 90% of the effort is spent dealing with the garbage these people spew out.

          • kot [they/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
            19·
            6 months ago

            This whole programming thing is boring and looks like it takes too much effort to learn for too little benefit for the average person. Just replace them with the cool trans programmers tbh.

            • silent_water [she/her]@hexbear.netEnglish
              14·
              6 months ago

              I like it as a puzzle solving exercise - fitting shaped blocks together in my head and letting the compiler tell me how my answer doesn’t make sense. but yeah, it attracts the worst people. I’ve met… 5?.. cool people in a dozen years working professionally.

            • oregoncom [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
              5·
              6 months ago

              IMO there wouldn’t be a distinction between programming and just using a computer if these ppl weren’t so convinced they were super special bois and everyone else should only use computers through software made for toddlers.

                • oregoncom [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
                  4·
                  6 months ago

                  I mean that kinda proves my point. They don’t know what a directory is because they spent most of their time on computers(phones and tablets) that hid the file system from them. It’s not like it’s a particularly hard concept to grasp.

              • kot [they/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
                5·
                6 months ago

                I disagree. If employers could simply not pay people such high salaries, they would. There is still an inability of the education system of most places to produce enough programmers to create a significant reserve army of labor of programmers. I don’t like techbros either, but the idea that what they do is not highly specialized and doesn’t take a significant amount of training to do is nonsense.

                • oregoncom [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
                  6·
                  6 months ago

                  Being able to read and write was considered a rare skill that commanded a high position in society too. Scarcity doesn’t mean that the field is inherently hard.

                  In theory, getting a CS degree is about mastering computer science. In practice, CS grads spend their time memorizing the syntax for 30 different types of regex and write CRUD apps their entire career. The particularly talented ones will devote their time to creating a 31st variant of regex 30 layers of abstraction away from the actual hardware that uses more resources than an actual supercomputer from 2008. Ask these people basic questions about something as simple and commonplace as unicode and they’ll get it wrong more likely than not. This is why if you go on the orange site they constantly complain about having to solve the most basic problems during interviews.

                  So where we are right now is the medieval scribes stage of development. Most of these people’s only skill is that they can write code at all, not that they’re particularly good at it. Just like a medieval scribe’s main skill is simply the ability to read and write at all, and not like, literary analysis or philology.

  • PM_ME_YOUR_FOUCAULTS [he/him, they/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
    48·
    6 months ago

    If there’s one lesson to be learned from federation, it’s that shitty admins lead to shitty instances.

    It was also always sus that they blocked a bunch of our comms by default

    Also why is the other admin putting out this statement? Is the snowe still seething and crying too much to apologize?

  • GarbageShoot [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
    45·
    6 months ago

    This genuinely read to me as them using “triggered” in the other sense, like “caused,” as gets used in programming speak sometimes. I would never try to argue this as being true because I feel silly in retrospect, but just thought I’d share.

    • kristina [she/her]@hexbear.netOPEnglish
      38·
      6 months ago

      yeah now that two people have said it, gonna edit it out. i feel like this is my brain doing some weird flips, czechs hell of a drug

    • flan [they/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
      20·
      6 months ago

      nah they’re referring to branches of a comment thread being “triggered” in the colloquial sense unless i’m misunderstanding the narrative around the images I can’t see (and won’t bother going to programming.dev to see)

  • brainw0rms [they/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
    44·
    6 months ago

    I read Ategon’s post and while I appreciate their attempt at reconciliation(?), when you look at the actual internal changes they’re making:

    • admins will be required to have two accounts, one for admin activities and one for non admin activities. This is how some admins have already been interacting in the fediverse and basically makes it so comments done on the non-admin account should not be taken as that admin speaking on behalf of the instance. Generally the admin account will be things done relating to admin duties (e.g. my posts here in meta) while the non-admin account is other various conversations. Admins can be as anonymous as they want with the non-admin account similar to how our users here can be as anonymous as they want with their accounts
    • im adding in some guidelines for tone while chatting for the admins so comments made that are on behalf of the instance should be respectful and not devolve to slap fights

    Adopting an official policy of making admins use alt accounts for “non-admin activities” (which includes posting problematic garbage) doesn’t seem to address any of the problems that led to this, other than allowing the instance additional plausible deniability for their admin’s behavior. Really doesn’t seem very transparent to me.

    I’d rather know what the admins of an instance stand for and are all about by their posts, so I can make an informed decision before engaging with any of the comms on their instance.

    • Ategon [any]@hexbear.netEnglish
      24·
      6 months ago

      The two account situation is to solve another issue with the situation which is taking things admins say as speaking on behalf of the instance due to all comments getting marked with the admin or mod flair. If they post things breaking instance rules on there they will still be handled. Im going to be refining the guidebook more with things like intended conduct on all accounts just havent fleshed out the specific sections yet

      But yeah last paragraph is fair. Typically what I try to convey with the rules in the site sidebar so people dont have to dig around for stuff and can see what we handle on the instance but yeah not every opinion can be conveyed in instance rules

  • flan [they/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
    44·
    6 months ago

    i dont understand why we’re federated with hacker news fuckos in the first place, they should stick to the orange site where they belong.

  • Doubledee [comrade/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
    33·
    6 months ago

    To be fair,

    1. They’re throwing snowe under the bus and openly blame them for it further down. This is a bit of context that I guess is kinda excusing it, although in my opinion your third party program messing up an interaction with someone is a problem that could easily be resolved by realizing you made a mistake and fixing it, which snowe of course didn’t do. So maybe they’re giving too much credit to a bad admin but I don’t think they’re really defending the behavior.

    2. I think the triggered has an unclear antecedent, but I read it as “a branch of the conversation was triggered (as in caused/set off)” not “a user was triggered.”

    That said, I don’t really have strong feelings about programming.dev. They don’t seem to show up here much but it’s a mixed bag when they do.

    • kristina [she/her]@hexbear.netOPEnglish
      20·
      6 months ago

      hm i guess thonk i havent seen anyone say those words that way. also got a minor case of bilingual brain so that might be it too. continuing to keep someone on the admin team that did that and still has yet to apologize to the people affected is a dick move, still.

      regardless, the comments are a cesspool in that thread, grounds enough to defed imo

      • GarbageShoot [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
        22·
        6 months ago

        It would be a weird usage, but people definitely use in a comparable way when talking about video games (event flags and such), so a programmer would be the one to make that stylistic oversight. I can’t tell you it’s definitely what the admin meant, but it’s worth asking.

      • Red Wizard 🪄@lemmygrad.mlEnglish
        19·
        6 months ago

        I read it how you read it and English is my first language. But I do agree I rarely see programming.dev users and when I do, its a mixed bag. I don’t have a dog in this race though being from lemmygrad.

        The app I use doesn’t do display names so I’m also in the same situation with not seeing pronouns. But I have the better sense to use someone’s username if I was unsure.

    • oregoncom [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
      10·
      6 months ago

      The argument that they’re using “triggered in a programming sense” is more reason to defed. What it really is is an appeal to nerd identity politics. These people revolve their identity around some lame nerd subculture, and any conflict with them turns into them thinking “wow these normies just don’t understand me, a super special computer toucher!!!”. It’s insufferable whiny BS I have to deal with enough of in real life.

      It’s also why every “tech” community devolves into nerds whining about culture wars BS instead of actual technical discussion. They’re more interested in identifying as a programmer than the actual content of programming.