Speaking in terms of the popular response
?wasn’t Harper’s Ferry widely condemned at the time by the liberal masses? not well read on the topic but I’ve seen people compare October 7th to it for that reason.
It was, but it kicked off the Civil War just a few years later. In terms of making people get off their asses and do the right thing* it’s solidly in first place so far.
*Only after much kicking, screaming, denial, and eventual failure to deliver fully on the true end of slavery in the US.
Yeah I think saying he kicked off the civil war is a huge reach
It happened because of economics not because the north grew a conscience or feared imminent uprising
also slavery still isn’t truly ended, let alone legally ended
i mean, I think the civil war was gonna happen anyway right? isn’t this a bit great man ish?
100%. JB was an absolute sick bloke but Harper’s ferry was a huge L
It 100% would’ve happened anyway, but Harper’s Ferry was the fire under the southern aristocracy’s ass to go through with it because suddenly there was a very real example of a northerner actively instigating mass slave rebellions to destroy their way of life. Had it not happened, the civil war might not have occurred for another decade or two instead of within five years.
Some yes, but major public intellectuals were on his side worldwide. Victor Hugo sent a letter in support.
Oh I didn’t even consider that. I guess I was thinking more of an assassination of a powerful American with a generally positive approval from the public. That’s like the one thing Americans usually won’t stomach. John Brown “only” took over a military compound
Lol, he hasn’t even started a civil war yet.
Literally nothing has happened
People are talking, they’re mad, but nothing has happened
We’ve seen the rubber band get pulled and it’s snapping back into place
The real question is whether or not we’re going to actually get people to actually learn about why this was an inevitable act
I thought the Arab Spring taught us that Social Media isn’t the be all and end all. Mass media was hyping the Arab Spring as the first “social media revolution”, Mubarak was ousted, but the Army took over and then Morsi. Occupy Wall Street was the biggest leftist movement in America, maybe this will ignite something similar, but this time for fucks sakes, don’t let another Dem sheepdog like Sanders or AOC lead the masses back to the Dems.
It’s our job to guide people toward the PSL right now
Lol. More like PA.
I always forget that not everyone is American
That’s got nothing to do with it. As citizens of the biggest force of imperialism in the world, the PA and what they do is who you should be looking at.
Ok but imagine for a moment that someone is getting radicalized because of the shit health insurance industry. How does immediately jumping to talking about Palestine help that radicalization process? Guide them to groups that combine the Palestinian struggle with more broad based workers struggles. Start with the issues that effect their immediate material conditions and work outward from there by encouraging education and involvement in the org
More like AA, am I right fellas?
¿Por qué no los dos?
Read If we burn for more! My reading group threads are still in /c/theory
Maybe an unpopular opinion but idk how organic the Arab spring really was. There’s US spooks up and down the social media companies.
I could see another one in the next few years. And then another, and another. The conditions are only going to become more likely for them. My worry is we get some neoliberal release valve rather than revolution. There’s a lot of clocks ticking right now and none of them are counting down to anything good.
Yet!
i’d argue that unless we get another cool zone entry within the next two weeks or the trial becomes a circus of nullification, then no.
expanding to worldwide events of similar nature, i’d argue that even the doohickey achieved more in japan than the adjustment has in the US so far.
Most is a high bar to reach on any issue. There is definitely a mainstream level of support. I don’t think it is just an echo chamber thing — I have seen the same anti-CEO sentiment across all social media including Reddit, TikTok, Facebook, Instagram, etc.
I’d love to see one of the talking heads go to the cool zone, that’d be pretty dope.
Uh no. The civil rights movement and pride riots would like to have a word with you.
What examples of propaganda of the deed came from those movements?
Civil disobedience, protest, and regular assassinations are not what propaganda of the deed means.
Tbf as much as I’ve pushed back a bit here and there on the whole overly critical thing some of us have been doing idk if I’d really call what Luigi did propaganda of the deed either
Edit: like i feel like we’re kinda using that term to mean “general assassination” as you say lately and less what it traditionally meant
If the note is real, he made it explicitly clear that was his intention.
As to your edit, why use such a specific and esoteric term like that? Just say “assassination”. It just feels like the comment I was responding to was cheapening what those movements were by trying to make them contend as something they were not
Yea that’s fair. The reason I said that is bc he’s not a Marxist or anarchist and I suppose I assume a certain leftist position as a base for a “propaganda of the deed.” I guess what I was saying with the edit is that I feel like a lot of the times we have personal assumptions baked into these definitions in our minds that don’t always line up.
An also a lot of the time on the internet the definitions of things get more generalized over time, take what the internet did to concepts like “emotional labor” and other such stuff as an example. If that makes sense
Serious question: does the term “propaganda of the deed” imply the person is on the left? Could a fascist not do propaganda of the deed for the sake of fascism?
id argue there hasnt been any success yet
Yet!
I think we have to be careful to not fall into echo chambers because I really don’t believe that most Americans share our views on this
And the media has been working overtime to convince people there is a “good” and “bad” guy. Don’t forget how the average burger brain works
I talk with a wide range of average burger Americans daily, I have yet to encounter one who says it’s a bad thing. People are legitimately hopeful because of it.
Judging by comments on news articles across the political spectrum, there’s at minimum “we don’t feel bad for the CEO but maybe a little bad for his family” to “lol who’s next”
The only real pearl clutching I’m seeing is from mainstream liberals horrified that social murder is finally being met with murder.
Also judging by IRL convo: same sentiments, but more people on the lol who’s next train.
literally no lmao, this is pure online bullshit
No, people are very much on Luigi’s side
doesn’t mean they’ve awakened politically. Most people hate individual pieces of shit without having the political brain to realize they should hate the system too. If a rich bank owner or insurance mogul got shot the reaction would be the same, but that doesn’t mean anyone would be more socialist.
Hell no read a history book, we have martyrs
Yeah, we get martyred, but when has an assassination of a powerful American been so well-recieved by the public?
Sure numerically, this is probably the most popular. Doesn’t seem wrong to say actually
I think the ones done during the militant labor movements of the late 1800s and early 1900s were probably really popular. If I had to guess. I mean strikers were regularly getting murdered by oligarchs.
Perhaps they were but nobody alive today was alive then. This is todays event.
There have been so many acts of political violence in america, like it wasn’t that special.
Yes there were times when the American Communist Party made two figures in several states .
