Orrrrrrr we can just participate in our electoral process more and be more aware of who the people we cast votes for and what they’re beholden to, but that’s not sexy enough for hexbear users.
You’re talking about electoralism when this is an issue where the vast majority of voters have nobody to vote for that actually aligns with their interests. Do you vote for Biden the senile Zionist or Trump the deranged Zionist?
You want to work within the system? Make a billion dollars doing something morally depraved and bribe the politcians yourself. It’s just as unrealistic as voooooting your way to progress and more effective.
Do whatever you want dude. You can cum harder than the Chinese government cracking down on its people, but it won’t make you any more right or prove any point here.
Yeah I don’t really care about party politics so I’m not going to go further into what x or y party does, I’m just saying between engaging in a flawed system and replacing it with another system it will always be easier to engage in what already exists.
It’s not an assumption it’s literally how basically everything in this universe works.
It’s generally easier to fix something than completely redo it. Less materials, less energy expenditure, less time.
I can use whatever analogy you want but the fact is it would be much easier to get more active in local politics and make a positive change that way than tear the whole system down and hope it doesn’t fall victim to the same power-hungry tyrants in another form.
That’s why in nature all organism live forever instead of creating an entirely new organism to propagate their genetic line. Why waste all the resources on reproduction when you can make the original organism live forever. It’s that simple!
Your attempts at sounding smug just make me feel bad for you. You’re like the verbal version of those robots that can barely walk getting hit with sticks over and over again and struggling to stand back up. Go back to reddit. You’re clearly distressed by the fact that you’ve stepped outside your echo chamber.
You: “I disagree with Ogodei Khan’s’s policies and the Mongol Empire is collapsing on multiple fronts, if only we declare Kublai Khan the Great Khan at the Kurultai then the true will of the people will prevail and the empire will be cured!”
I mean it’s that or burn it all down, and at our current rate of economic and ecological breakdown we don’t really have the time or resources to form a better structure.
It’s much more economical for example, to repair the climate than it would be to terraform another planet. At a much smaller scale, it’s easier to fix the system than replace it.
If we can’t even decide on basic shit like “is the earth warming at a rate that is hostile to life” or “is Taylor Swift a psyop” how are we supposed to form a new cohesive government? It’s going to be hard enough electing decent people to any structure you can think of.
I’m on board for anything better that we can realistically accomplish in the next decade that can guarantee long term prosperity for the people and also is not subject to greedy and power-hungry officials.
Better engagement in the voting process by the voting public, for a start.
Unfortunately too many Americans either pay no attention to our political system, are misled enough on its operations, or are too complacent or depressed to care.
This is the root of the issue that has allowed the current system to be so corrupt, and regardless of governmental structure this is what needs to be solved before anything else.
This is the root of the issue that has allowed the current system to be so corrupt
The system is not corrupt. The system in the US is working 100% as intended. The root of the system is capitalism. This us what living under capital is. You can’t change anything unless you understand the problem.
You want to blame the least powerful people in society for not ing hard enough, instead of looking first at the most obvious thing we should consider - how all resources are extracted, produced, and distributed in society and what that means for evetything else
This is what I don’t understand with people like you. The upper class holds all the cards and shits on everyone else, but supposedly it’s the lower classes fault for being shit on? Why is it their fault?
If we can’t even decide on basic shit like “is the earth warming at a rate that is hostile to life” how are we supposed to form a new cohesive government? It’s going to be hard enough electing decent people to any structure you can think of.
You yourself are making our point for why liberal democracy cannot fix itself. We can’t form a “cohesive government” as you say within this system. That’s why its necessary for this system to end.
You will never be able to elect “decent people” because you, us, the people do not have a say in who they get to vote for. This government does not exist for us, and it is not a democracy for us. And it never will be, until the power of capital is broken
When your way has been implemented, and the system is overthrown, and all is just and fair, how are you going to protect this revolution from the next one?
As you said, the government doesn’t work for us. I don’t know of any structure that truly does because they all rely on those given power to use it responsibly and relinquish it eventually, which will always be subject to corruption.
But the alternative is anarchy, and that’s not going to work either.
how are you going to protect this revolution from the next one?
There’s an entire intellectual tradition about this called Marxism-Leninism. There are successful Marxist-Leninist governments that exist right now, including the largest nation on earth. We aren’t aren’t talking about a fantasy here, there is is over a hundred years of paractice and two hundred of theory, if you’re interested in our worldview
As you said, the government doesn’t work for us. I don’t know of any structure that truly does
Liberal democracy does not work for us - as in the people who are not in the ruling class. That isn’t because of some immutable characteristic of all governments, it is by the design of the US government and all liberal democracies.
They were designed by and to work to the benefit of the ruling class - capitalists. That’s why it doesn’t work for us. Thats the key element and that’s what we advocate for a change of. The only way to change things in through class struggle - and placing power in the hands of our class.
But the alternative is anarchy, and that’s not going to work either.
We have anarchists here and we keep the place non-sectarian. MLs would agree but not for the same reasons as you. Our disagreement is that we need the power of a state to safeguard the gains of a revolution against the global capitalist class and their state forces. Anarchists have a different view, but they understand the importance of revolutionary class struggle and disagreements aside, their theory of change is infinitely more grounded in reality than yours
China is the most obvious one, but Cuba, DPRK, Vietnam, the USSR did very well until it lost its conflict with the US.
You’re probably going to say some dumb shit like China isnt really communist, which shows you don’t know what you’re talking about, or maybe some other westoid propaganda talking point about muh authoritarianism. If that’s what you’ve got don’t bother.
You probably don’t consider these countries “successful” for some reason based on US propaganda. Great, we’ve all heard it and know its bullshit.
If you want to pretend that China is not currently the most successful nation on earth, the world’s largest democracy, and led by a Marxist Leninist party, cool. Most of the west likes to pretend that shit to. It doesn’t change reality, and no one here wants to hear about your lib fantasy world
Corruption is a fundamental problem of any system of governance, and it reaches a point where the only route to defeat it is to kill the fucking cheats who set it up.
Voting is nit going to fix a system that has intentionally broken voting to invalidate you. Only revolution can do that.
What’s sad is that you think you’re the one being realistic, when your theory of change is complete fantasy.
What we’re talking about has been done and accomplished before and exists in the real world, including the largest nation on earth. What you’re talking about has never happened
The Soviet Union lasted for decades and at the time was on the cutting edge of science, math, industry, social sciences etc and became the second leading superpower only 20 years after forming. Pretty successful if you ask me. It took the US over 100 years to do anything similar.
Then there’s China which is looking to be even more successful than that.
I can think of a better fix
Orrrrrrr we can just participate in our electoral process more and be more aware of who the people we cast votes for and what they’re beholden to, but that’s not sexy enough for hexbear users.
Palestinians should just vote out the Israelis tbqh.
Yes, choose an unrelated matter in an attempt to disprove this statement.
Whatever you gotta do to feel right, I suppose.
You’re talking about electoralism when this is an issue where the vast majority of voters have nobody to vote for that actually aligns with their interests. Do you vote for Biden the senile Zionist or Trump the deranged Zionist?
You want to work within the system? Make a billion dollars doing something morally depraved and bribe the politcians yourself. It’s just as unrealistic as voooooting your way to progress and more effective.
I voted for Bernie each time and don’t give a shit about the other candidates. If enough people did that we wouldn’t be having this conversation.
Bernie is a Zionist too lmao.
Are there zionists in the room right now?
I’m right here.
You’re the one who voted for Bernie so yeah I assume.
The fact that they’re right helps, i suppose
Yeah buddy, you stroke that ego.
I’m over here stroking my ego got lotion on my ego right now I’m just stroking my shit I’m horny as fuck man I’m a freak man like
Do whatever you want dude. You can cum harder than the Chinese government cracking down on its people, but it won’t make you any more right or prove any point here.
Are all hexbear users trolls or just you?
I can’t believed a seasoned redditor like you would just do a whataboutism like that, we’re talking about how fucked taco sizes are in amerikkka
I think you are lying about my country, American.
oh shit noooo don’t clown on China we’ll shit our pants!
Its our ego comrade
My b for commenting on a hexbear post I suppose. Have fun being right all the time.
If you want to be right all the time too, we have book recommendations!
Parenti: Blackshirts and Reds: https://archive.org/details/michael-parenti-blackshirts-and-reds
Engels: Principles of Communism https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/11/prin-com.htm
Lenin: State and Revolution https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1917/staterev/
Unironically I will lmfao.
I remember believing that. Then I saw the Democratic party cheat and gaslight the public into thinking theres any real democracy in their primary.
It’s Joever, dude. Democracy is dead
Yeah I don’t really care about party politics so I’m not going to go further into what x or y party does, I’m just saying between engaging in a flawed system and replacing it with another system it will always be easier to engage in what already exists.
That’s an assumption you’ve made, and its not factual. It’s a supposition of fact that you shpuld treat with appropriate skepticism
It’s not an assumption it’s literally how basically everything in this universe works.
It’s generally easier to fix something than completely redo it. Less materials, less energy expenditure, less time.
I can use whatever analogy you want but the fact is it would be much easier to get more active in local politics and make a positive change that way than tear the whole system down and hope it doesn’t fall victim to the same power-hungry tyrants in another form.
That’s why in nature all organism live forever instead of creating an entirely new organism to propagate their genetic line. Why waste all the resources on reproduction when you can make the original organism live forever. It’s that simple!
I literally can’t tell if you’re serious or not because most hexbear users legit sound like this all the time.
There’s a reason y’all need your own instance and it’s not because you’re the enlightened ones lol
Your attempts at sounding smug just make me feel bad for you. You’re like the verbal version of those robots that can barely walk getting hit with sticks over and over again and struggling to stand back up. Go back to reddit. You’re clearly distressed by the fact that you’ve stepped outside your echo chamber.
Yes, that’s why everyone in this thread is explaining to you why that’s bad.
Capital. The answer is always kapital.
You: “I disagree with Ogodei Khan’s’s policies and the Mongol Empire is collapsing on multiple fronts, if only we declare Kublai Khan the Great Khan at the Kurultai then the true will of the people will prevail and the empire will be cured!”
Nah, all systems have the same problems. I have yet to hear why x is better than y.
Guess you can’t :)
There is no difference between good things and bad things you imbecile, you fucking moron
You’ve got it. Just
harder lib
I mean it’s that or burn it all down, and at our current rate of economic and ecological breakdown we don’t really have the time or resources to form a better structure.
It’s much more economical for example, to repair the climate than it would be to terraform another planet. At a much smaller scale, it’s easier to fix the system than replace it.
If we can’t even decide on basic shit like “is the earth warming at a rate that is hostile to life” or “is Taylor Swift a psyop” how are we supposed to form a new cohesive government? It’s going to be hard enough electing decent people to any structure you can think of.
Which is why we need to do a slow incrementalism by voting?
I’m on board for anything better that we can realistically accomplish in the next decade that can guarantee long term prosperity for the people and also is not subject to greedy and power-hungry officials.
And this is achieved through voting how? We need a radical in the white house by november.
Better engagement in the voting process by the voting public, for a start.
Unfortunately too many Americans either pay no attention to our political system, are misled enough on its operations, or are too complacent or depressed to care.
This is the root of the issue that has allowed the current system to be so corrupt, and regardless of governmental structure this is what needs to be solved before anything else.
The system is not corrupt. The system in the US is working 100% as intended. The root of the system is capitalism. This us what living under capital is. You can’t change anything unless you understand the problem.
You want to blame the least powerful people in society for not
ing hard enough, instead of looking first at the most obvious thing we should consider - how all resources are extracted, produced, and distributed in society and what that means for evetything else
This is what I don’t understand with people like you. The upper class holds all the cards and shits on everyone else, but supposedly it’s the lower classes fault for being shit on? Why is it their fault?
Let me paraphrase what you said for you:
“I will eat shit forever because the people forcefeeding me shit taught me that any alternative involves me eating shit AND drinking piss”
Paraphrase all you want, that doesn’t give you a point or mean you’re being accurate doing it lol.
Come back when you have a constructive comment. But I doubt that exists on this instance.
Is your goal being here to spread your beliefs? Cause this kind of comment isn’t effective at getting people on board.
Our only goal is to piss you off personally, and we’re doing a damn fine job
I’m on board with it. Sounds like a you problem
You yourself are making our point for why liberal democracy cannot fix itself. We can’t form a “cohesive government” as you say within this system. That’s why its necessary for this system to end.
You will never be able to elect “decent people” because you, us, the people do not have a say in who they get to vote for. This government does not exist for us, and it is not a democracy for us. And it never will be, until the power of capital is broken
When your way has been implemented, and the system is overthrown, and all is just and fair, how are you going to protect this revolution from the next one?
As you said, the government doesn’t work for us. I don’t know of any structure that truly does because they all rely on those given power to use it responsibly and relinquish it eventually, which will always be subject to corruption.
But the alternative is anarchy, and that’s not going to work either.
There’s an entire intellectual tradition about this called Marxism-Leninism. There are successful Marxist-Leninist governments that exist right now, including the largest nation on earth. We aren’t aren’t talking about a fantasy here, there is is over a hundred years of paractice and two hundred of theory, if you’re interested in our worldview
Liberal democracy does not work for us - as in the people who are not in the ruling class. That isn’t because of some immutable characteristic of all governments, it is by the design of the US government and all liberal democracies.
They were designed by and to work to the benefit of the ruling class - capitalists. That’s why it doesn’t work for us. Thats the key element and that’s what we advocate for a change of. The only way to change things in through class struggle - and placing power in the hands of our class.
We have anarchists here and we keep the place non-sectarian. MLs would agree but not for the same reasons as you. Our disagreement is that we need the power of a state to safeguard the gains of a revolution against the global capitalist class and their state forces. Anarchists have a different view, but they understand the importance of revolutionary class struggle and disagreements aside, their theory of change is infinitely more grounded in reality than yours
How would you define a successful Marxist-Leninist government and which is it?
China is the most obvious one, but Cuba, DPRK, Vietnam, the USSR did very well until it lost its conflict with the US.
You’re probably going to say some dumb shit like China isnt really communist, which shows you don’t know what you’re talking about, or maybe some other westoid propaganda talking point about muh authoritarianism. If that’s what you’ve got don’t bother.
You probably don’t consider these countries “successful” for some reason based on US propaganda. Great, we’ve all heard it and know its bullshit.
If you want to pretend that China is not currently the most successful nation on earth, the world’s largest democracy, and led by a Marxist Leninist party, cool. Most of the west likes to pretend that shit to. It doesn’t change reality, and no one here wants to hear about your lib fantasy world
Corruption is a fundamental problem of any system of governance, and it reaches a point where the only route to defeat it is to kill the fucking cheats who set it up.
Voting is nit going to fix a system that has intentionally broken voting to invalidate you. Only revolution can do that.
Right, when that revolution is over what is to keep that new perfect system from being corrupted again?
Why bother trying to do anything ever if everything we do is doomed?
this is just sad.
What’s sad is that you think you’re the one being realistic, when your theory of change is complete fantasy.
What we’re talking about has been done and accomplished before and exists in the real world, including the largest nation on earth. What you’re talking about has never happened
Please provide me an example of communism working on a long-term scale and how you define “working”.
People’s Republic of China. Worlds largest democracy. Largest manufacturing nation - poised to be world’s largest economy. Seems pretty successful
Can you name an example of capitalism working
The Soviet Union lasted for decades and at the time was on the cutting edge of science, math, industry, social sciences etc and became the second leading superpower only 20 years after forming. Pretty successful if you ask me. It took the US over 100 years to do anything similar.
Then there’s China which is looking to be even more successful than that.
“Who am I supposed to vote for Ben, Aquaman?”
I got some participation for you…
Sure. Get back to me on how that works out.
When you open your mind enough to try i absolutely will.
Lmao ok, what is that even supposed to mean
They’re all bloodthirsty zionists and neocons