I created an account while in the store with an email of [email protected] and a basic password and surprisingly didn’t have to verify the email. Then turned on a VPN to my house.
I plan on just creating a new account every time I go in just to fill up their database with nonsense.
GIGO (Garbage in, garbage out) is the correct way to deal with the surveillance system.
This makes me feel a lot better about ChatGPT garbage corrupting Google search results.
Fun fact: Android developer options has a Disabled Persistent Mac address randomization toggle. Or at least Pixel phones do
Cool, is [email protected] still available?
It is not. You need to add a number at the end.
inhell.info is available and Postfix is a thing.
You do realize that they are actually tracking the device itself by the hardware MAC address and other device fingerprints.
The email is just a bonus to let them legally spam you. Anti-spam laws have an exemption. If there’s a prior business relationship like shopping in their stores, they can put you on their spam list unless you opt out.
Bogus email only helps for spam but doesn’t do anything about tracking.
EDIT: For Android when there’s a Captive Portal like the screen shot. devices will use Persistent randomization which while not the hardware MAC will remain the same for the same network where they can track your visits.
Pretty much all modern phones randomize the MAC address everytime they connect to a network unless the user explicitly says not to do that.
randomize the MAC address everytime they connect to a network
+1, had issues using Android devices for presence detection because of this very useful privacy feature. Even on your home network, the MAC address and device hostname get randomized, unless disabled in the settings
Edit: typo
When there’s a Captive Portal like the screenshot, many devices use a random but persistent mac for that network avoid reauthorization after any network drop. This will make your access to the specific network trackable.
chuckles in GrapheneOS
(per-connection random MAC, for all networks, by default)
This is actually just part of stock Android. My Pixel 5 has MAC randomization on by default for new Wi-Fi networks.
It’s per-network, not per-connection. Though that option does exist but is hidden away under developer settings.
Oh you mean like per TCP connection?
But can’t you go manually forget the network in your device network options to circumvent this?
I’d assume after a certain amount of time or after moving far enough away from the network it “forgets” the last randomized MAC address?
It doesn’t really make sense to store these things long term.
GrapheneOS let’s me do a per-connection randomized MAC.
I’m sure they do collect a lot more about my device, but there’s not much I can do about it short of wrapping my phone in tin foil.
Don’t forget to disable wifi and bluetooth before approaching the store, as those give off unique identifiers too.
Don’t forget to spoof your MAC address so they cant see who is making the fake accounts ;D
That’s done automatically on mobile devices
This is the way. Fuck them.
Not Walmart, not wifi but my default is @gfy.com
Literally 1984
Should’ve clicked to have it reevaluated.
NB4 VPN
I think the point of this post is all the stuff below the email field. Yikes.
That data isn’t nothing, either. Over ten years ago, Target was able to use shoppers habits to determine when women were pregnant, sometimes even before the women knew.
https://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/19/magazine/shopping-habits.html
Imagine how much more robust this has gotten 10 years later.
Exactly, a damn good reason to avoid the Wi-Fi in stores altogether. So many wifi access points are super weak in security and super sketchy.
I try sticking to my home where I can manage it like a nervous hawk.
This is a fantastic read.
I remember febreeze coming out and being like, that would be cool but you can’t trust ads and it sounds like total BS. I knew they added a scent, but I had not idea about the subtle social manipulation that they used to shift people’s habits.
Speaking of habits, this is the first time I have heard about all the science involved in studying and breaking them.
Thank you for that link. Definitely going to save it.
Now they can tell when women are pregnant before they even have sex.
Would using a VPN remedy this?
Not really. With https luckily being the default, at most they could get the sites you were going to (I don’t think dnss is dead, but it’s been very slow to grow unfortunately).
They could probably see if you’re checking Amazon or Google, but wouldn’t be able to see what you’re looking at exactly. Theoretically they could use cameras and or triangulation to see what you’re in front of when you use the Internet, but a VPN would still show traffic so they’d know you’re looking up something.
The big thing this would do is act like a loyalty card… They give you some amount of benefit in exchange for tracking your purchases in ever higher detail. Mostly it’s just like that, except they’d also be able to see how long you are in the store, and ideally they can link it to your purchases so they can infer more about it
FWIW, I wouldn’t only consider giving them a disposable email
Bub, they always did this.
They just tell you that they’re doing it now.
I was responding to all the people who said “just use a fake email,” bub…
Well now they can legally use that data since you now have to agree to the terms.
At least they’re telling you. There’s also a lot of hidden surveillance in stores - they’ve done it with Bluetooth and cameras for some time. Things like monitoring how long you look at products and evaluating your reactions to displays.
That’s why I always introduce a good bit of entropy to my shopping patterns:
-Enter and go straight to produce
-Spend 20 minutes examining eggplants
-Walk up and down 5 aisles pausing exactly the square of the aisle number in seconds.
-Grab a box of tampons
-Grab what I need as quickly as possible
-Return tampons
-Checkout and leaveSomewhere a marketing team is spending hours trying to figure out how to improve the conversion rates for tampons and eggplants for customers in my demo.
This is even more hilarious if you read it in Dale Gribble’s (from King of the Hill) voice
Then throw some pocketsand at the end
Shaaahhhhhh
Don’t forget to flick and knock on various fruits and vegetables. Randomize how many flicks/knocks per item, and throw in a few on produce items that normally don’t get that kind of test e.g. grapes or potatoes.
Wait, there are fruits/veggies that get this kind of treatment by typical customers? Please list a few.
Melons and squashes (inc. pumpkins).
I believe the idea is to allow you to roughly evaluate the density of the produce, to avoid e.g. mushy grainy watermelon or weird squashes that don’t have their expected hollowness.
isn’t that why Kramer was bowling watermelons down the aisle (dating myself a bit here)
Don’t forget to be visibly revolted by any ads you happen to glance at
At least they’re telling you.
Now there telling you. They just didn’t ask for consent before.
That’s what I mean.
In the EU they already had a complaint, because it violates GDPR, but in any case I would never use a public WiFi without a VPN, and even less in places with these conditions, there is also free WiFi in some Rstaurants (even in most McDonalds), public Libraries and others. Fuck surveillance advertising
There’s just no reason to unless you are really skimping on phone data. Random wifi hotspots are one of the most dangerous things for an average joe in terms of infosec.
Agreed. My iPhone connects to my home VPN via Wireguard as soon as I leave my home WiFi. Has the added benefit of pihole ad filtering everywhere.
Wireguard and PiHole combo is such a blessing.
Have you experienced any downsides to using pi hole? Does anything stop working?
Obviously the first ad links in google don’t work any more, which drives the wife crazy ;-) Also nowadays more and more websites complain about me using an adblocker.
But technically, not really any problems at all.
I used to before but my family was extremely bothered that they couldn’t click on ad links. If I remember correctly, it’s pretty easy to set up if you want to just try it.
In the 6 years I’ve ran mine, I’ve not had any issues and I run a blocklist with over 1 million domains on it.
If I was to run into something that’s blocked that I do want loaded, I can just open the pihole interface and either whitelist the blocked domain or disable blocking for a short time, each with just a couple clicks.
So the first thing you give any sketchy WiFi is your home address?
Yup. What are they gonna do that every other portscanning bad actor isn’t doing 24/7 already?
Also, how would they distinguish between my private VPN and that of a commercial provider?
They seem to explain pretty well how your data will be used, why would this violate GDPR?
No way to opt out?
I might be wrong but i think it is because they don’t give you the option to opt out and use the wifi.
Should they? I would simply not connect to their Wi-Fi and move on, it’s not like they are obligated to provide you internet.
Went to a Walmart the other day and my phone automatically connected to a wifi that was apparently hosted by my cell carrier. Immediately turned on my VPN because wtf. I disconnected at first then realized I didn’t have any service at all which was probably why it existed. Thankfully didn’t need to log in but that’s why I have Firefox relay.
I was about to say… Isn’t using public wifi’s extremely dangerous?
Yes, because of this using an public WiFi without VPN is a no-go
I have seen it on Europe… maybe there was some way to circumvent it hidden away, not sure. But you could type a random email and that’s it, like they don’t send anything to confirm the email or anything once you submit you have access to internet.
Better to send a disposable mail, where yo can receive the log data before it expired.
eg
- https://maildrop.cc
- https://altmails.com
- https://www.disposablemail.com
- https://www.lazyinbox.com/#/
- https://www.guerrillamail.com
etc
anonbox from ccc
Right, and this Walmart in Europe would be where exactly?
https://storelocator.asda.com/directory
Asda is Walmart
That’s England so no gdpr anyway
UK gdpr not withstanding, the question asked was: where in Europe. UK remains a part of Europe post brexit.
The provisions of the EU GDPR have been incorporated directly into UK law as the UK GDPR. It’s ok to not know this stuff but it only takes like 10 seconds to google before you comment about something you don’t know.
AFAIK it does not exist in Europe, but I meant that these conditions in the EU would not be tolerated. Maybe because of this there isn’t a Walmart in the EU, there are a lot of Malls from other companies and none of these use this practices in their restaurants, mostly with free WiFi for their visitors. Offering free WiFi is already enough of a benefit for them, because it attracts customers, they do not need to intrude on their privacy with an obvious attempt to spam them and make money with their data.
Why would anyone interested in privacy connect to any public WiFi? That’s crazy.
When you need service, but data is blocked by all the steel in the ceiling/roof. I’ve used it, but with my VPN active. I wonder if they’re now going to try to block VPN services?
Just VPN to your home network. What are they going to do, block every IP but theirs?
More like “we were doing this before, but now we have to tell you we are doing it”.
Why are all you mother fuckers shopping at Walmart. They are a welfare corporation offloading their costs to tax payers because despite making tons of money they pay shit and skirt employee benefits laws by keeping worker hours low and give new employees info on how to get financial aid such as food stamps.
This is the most privileged thing you could say.
“Hey, why isn’t everyone eating sustainably sourced GMO-free, organic, locally-grown food all the time?”
Spoiler alert: it costs more
Yeah, this is the thing. Does literally anyone want to go to Walmart? No. Is it the place I can afford? Increasingly, still no. Not sure I can even afford to walk past whatever the good version of a Whole Foods is today, though.
Dollar tree is looking expensive these days
At least dollar tree is significantly easier to shoplift from.
Haha exactly. People shop at Walmart because they work at target and don’t make enough money to shop at Whole Foods.
Cause WinCo doesn’t always have what I need, but most importantly:
I’m poor.
A lot of people in rural areas find themselves in situations like being 10 minutes from a walmart and an hour from any other option. So then anything besides walmart costs gas and time, on top of the product cost difference to begin with.
Nobody wants to drive extra after 8 hours of shitty minimum wage work and/or taking care of children.
Not like other grocery stores are any good for workers, either.
I needed a job, alright. I usually shop at hannaford although it’s expensive. I wanna farm someday.
Because all of the other retailers do the same shit only with higher prices. Here in Canada they don’t pay their employees any less than the competition, yet their prices are 30-40% cheaper on average.
That extra 40% doesn’t result in better working conditions for the employees, it goes directly to the shareholders and bonuses for the C-suite.
I respect the hell out of Walmart because they actually keep their price increases tied to inflation and aren’t out there trying to sell a loaf of poverty white bread for $5 or a pack of 4 chicken breasts for $37.
I got some insight from a friend who works at a major supplier for these retail stores in Canada. He said how they manage prices is that when they anticipate a rise in cost they’ll jack the price all the way to a future projected target instead of following the current inflationary rate so that they won’t need to constantly quote their customers different prices. They don’t care because they know it will get passed downstream.
Fake email and vpn = Free private connection
You dont even have to type a real email it doesn’t verify anything. Just [email protected]
The amount of success I’ve had with [email protected] is unreal
I personally use [email protected] or [email protected] because it’s fast to type lol
I usually do
thepresident@whitehouse.govWorks most of the time.
I sincerely hope no one has the email
test@testtesttest.combecause ohhhhh boy have they been getting some emails.It was you!!
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Next time try @@@@@@@@@@@ and see if it works
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@@@@@@@.@@@
Pedantic but
vpn free
Boy I hope not
I’d like to hope they mean the VPN they pay for for other… uses. So it’s no extra money, cuz they already are using it at home to download Overwatch VR Porn.
There was an equal sign in between those words. Idk if it’s visible on your end but I see it on mine. That being said, the only free vpn I would use is protonvpn. Downside is it’s slow and unstable due to using a free plan.
I use https://temp-mail.org/en/ when signing up for one time stuff
Yeah I use simplelogin but for stuff I don’t care about like this I’d probably use that or spam keyboard for fake email
For the email, you can use an email alias service like Addy or SimpleLogin. They’re both open-source and offer free tiers. I never give out my real email to anyone now except actual contacts.
After that, I think a VPN would probably still work to disguise what you’re doing from Walmart, but I’m not a 100% certain on that so I won’t link any.
But yeah, definitely use email alias wherever you can.
Do you do that with utility companies and bills?
I do.
I use SimpleLogin and ProtonMail.
Some sites have I’ll actually know you’re using SimpleLogin though and just say no, but they’re few and far between.
You could also use your own domain if you have one or buy a cheap one.
Then you can create as many as you like and just kill them as and when you need.
SimpleLogin has plugins for all browsers and phones so it’s not too difficult to create new addresses.
I do and it works great! I mostly did this to limit the blast radius of breaches, but aliases also provide an easy way to send those kinds of things to both me and my spouse.
I do it with everything. The only people who have my real email address are my family. Everything else is a masked email. It’s especially nice because if I start getting spam on one email I can immediately tell which site sold my info and I never use that site again.
Walmart, the biggest grocery retailer in the entire United States, uses face tracking in the majority of their stores in several sections, and we’re concerned about their Wi-Fi?
The Wi-Fi seems like such a minor problem compared to them collecting massive amounts of data off of something you aren’t consenting to explicitly.
Like you walk into their stores and they can know: How often you visit, what items you buy, what payment method you use most often, what items you looked at and what aisles you visit, who you bring with you, what your kids look like, what disabilities you may have, size of your household, and whatever else they want. There’s basically no respect for any privacy in their stores.
The US is a privacy nightmare in competition with China. Most of the US doesn’t have any option over their privacy. You just don’t get it here.
It’s even worse as an associate. They make us sign up for some social media I never use, download apps on our phones, and make us give them our handprints for a machine to take out our tills. And we’re getting face scanned by cameras all day. Dystopian nightmare and it makes me feel ashamed to have accepted the job here.
I use GOS and therefore believe that I have some level of protection on the WiFi level based off of that, and I have their apps on a separate profile but it’s getting tougher on privacy here at Walmart.
Edit: That’s also why I have no pictures of me in my socials and deleted my Facebook, Instagram, and twitter, so they shouldn’t have too many ways to market to me aside through my debit and credit cards possibly.
Revoke the data privileges of the app on your phone. That will effectively neuter it, while you can show them it’s there.
I have all of their apps on a separate profile. One app I do sadly need data for to check my schedule and look up prices of things.
Not sure about this Walmart case but most you can write any email like random letters [email protected] or not even the Gmail part as long as it’s a valid looking mail and then works like you don’t even have to confirm the email or anything.
my goto is [email protected]
I like [email protected]
If he was lucky or early enough to get a single name email then I’m sure they can handle some spam emails or get an email full of numbers like the rest of us
this is incorrect for the walmart case, next step is the password for the account, so you need to login or create a Walmart account for access
Oh yeah I see I mis read the prompt, I thought it was going with a enter you mail as alternative to using an account.
Your phone simply being in the store with Wi-Fi enabled makes you personally identifiable. A request for your email when they have your location, shopping habits, taste in electronics, estimated address, browsing habits, and your full appearance isn’t shocking. That no one has pointed this out yet is a bit eye opening.
Mac address randomization has been enabled by default since Android 10. I would assume iPhone does something similar.
Oh, ok. Thanks for linking it! :)
Per-network, though, not per-connection.
iOS requires each network to individually be randomized, there’s no singular setting, unfortunately.
“If you are an angry man of 30, and it is Friday evening, it may offer you a bottle of whiskey,” said Ekaterina Savchenko, the company’s head of > marketing.
I feel personally attacked.
I’ve started using a faraday pouch for everything, from my phone to my car key fob. if you use a device with a masked MAC address in a privacy protecting OS, and don’t auto connect to networks otherwise, perhaps it’s better.
Buy RFID/NFC shields for all your tap cards in your wallet, these can be used to track your presence
yeah I just switched my wallet and that is why I never used that feature. I literally just found out maybe 3 days ago I have a tap card when the cashier told me. I was horrified. I feel like the time you save tapping as opposed to swiping or inserting isn’t worth the security and privacy risks.
these engineers keep making new stuff that’s kind of interesting at best but we don’t even need that we end up being inconvenienced by. tap cards save .07 seconds but you end up having to protect your card from thieves and extreme tracking by retailers, and it’s disgusting. it’s time to go back to cash.
That was an interesting read. Didn’t know stores were doing that.
Expecting privacy on someone else’s network is absurd.
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Cause I get shit service in Walmart and don’t really have any other option if I need to look something up while shopping.
I live near a shopping area with a bunch of stores. It has zero cell coverage from any provider. Apparently there’s been some NIMBY resistance to putting up towers in nearby neighborhoods.
Same here. I wonder if they do it on purpose.
Fair, but even using your normal router without a VPN isn’t good imo. Even if it’s not as bad as public. And VPNs are usually an extreme measure. If I was using public WiFi, and doing stuff on my bank account, then yes, VPN all the way, but I usually don’t feel that I need it.
Why is the vpn necessary when you have https to the bank? Just to hide you’re ip from the bank?
Public WiFi would make me skeptical when I always put in my passwords.
Well im just saying thats what https is for but there’s nothing wrong with extra security
So if https is all that’s needed, why do VPNs recommend using them at public locations? Just false advertising? I click on my bank app and it always wants a password and I guess I don’t know enough about network engineering. I’m interested in Android Development but don’t know much about WiFi I guess.
Marketing mostly. The vpn makes an encrypted tunnel that you’re traffic goes thru. If using https and vpn there are 2 layers of encryption. It’s not false advertising bc an extra layer doesn’t hurt. Now if your sending password over http it would help but you shouldnt be using a site that sends passwords over plaintext. I would say vpn is mostly to either hide your ip from websites or to hide internet activity from your isp
So more for privacy than security, so it would make sense to use a VPN depending on your threat model I suppose, or how much you care.
I always wonder why those VPN absolutists aren’t happy with your regular HTTPS. Sure, maybe HTTP is safer with the VPN, but it just hides your real IP from the target website.
it also hides the websites you visit from your ISP, who often likes to profile you based on your browsing habits.
It shifts from the isp to the VPN provider, who isn’t doing that profiling yet.
yes.
Yeah but it’s on a public wifi
in that case, it hides the websites you visit from:
- the ISP providing the network, and
- the business who offers the public WiFi,
both of them probably being very eager to profile your browsing habits (as seen on the image in the post).
