You must log in or register to comment.
Klingons were legit less fucked up than contemporary society as we know it today, and they were still fucked up.
It gets even more depressing when thinking about the real world. In the Futurama universe, everyone is respectful of others’ pronouns. Even Richard Nixon is careful about them.
Star Trek is a huge exception, but It’s strange how absent the concept of gender normally is from scifi. Things that are perfectly normal in scifi include cybernetic enhancements, genetic engineering, etc., but god forbid anyone use technology to change their gender. And if technology really existed to instantly and effortlessly change gender, I suspect almost everyone would be doing it because that’s exactly what happens in social VR apps like VRChat.
Things that are perfectly normal in scifi include cybernetic enhancements, genetic engineering, etc., but god forbid anyone use technology to change their gender.
The average “Singularity™” prophet on /r/Futurology on
wants to be an immortal swarm of nanobots that is colonizing the galaxy but is weirded out and scared of trans people. 
All the worst nerds on earth terrified that my bedicked cockspider body was not amab because I forgot that was a requirement on nanotech 3d printer machine.
deleted by creator
deleted by creator
HERETIC! It was a minivan!
deleted by creator
It’s okay, I still love you
The Culture series is another big exception, combining both readily accessible and extremely fast transitioning tech with the understanding that people still have their own identity and preferred presentation (that can also get complicated).
There’s a documentary on DS9 called What You Leave Behind that touches on some of the behind the scenes of the LGBT aspects of he show. Apparently they had a hell of a time getting some of the Dax stuff past the studio execs and show runners. The writers and actors also wanted Bashir and Garak to have an explicitly gay relationship but that was also forbidden.
deleted by creator
God. Dammit. Day ruined. Has he not read his own books?
As a former fan of Orson Scott Card, welcome to the party pal.
Yeah, that was my reaction as well. It’s bloody strange - it isn’t lingered on, but Kovacs even mentioned a few occasions of being sleeved in other genders as positive (though the context might have been about enjoying superior pain tolerance) and his Awesome and Cool Envoy conditioning, as-described, would definitely put work into erasing any fucks given.
The latest book Thin Air however, had nastier sexual dynamics and gave me a strong sense of actual bitterness and not just thematic cynicism. Kinda sucks.
I forget the fallout of it but in Ghost in the Shell SAC Bato confronts Kusanagi on why she doesn’t switch to a male cyborg for it’s greater physical prowess and I think he gets put in his place. Iirc I think the conversation could have been handled better but at least it exists!
There’s also the implication of her merging with the purely digital entity at the end of the original movie.
There’s also theories that the Major’s original meat space is so wrapped in mystery but some clues suggest AMAB.
All that to say, a lot, but not all, Ghost in the Shell series are worth some time!
There’s also theories that the Major’s original meat space is so wrapped in mystery but some clues suggest AMAB.
Isn’t it known from 2nd Gig episode 11 that she was born a girl?
It’s been a long time since I’ve delved in but you could be right. I still think they try to leave a lot ambiguous.
Not to mention I think most of the GitS media stands on their own with various contradictions to each other, so there may be varied origins.
Lambert in Alien is canonically trans. James Cameron had that line in her bio in Aliens, which was on the screen behind Ripley when being interrogated by the bigwigs.
I love the show and in some ways it is easily the best of Trek, but it shouldn’t go unmentioned that shit like Profit and Lace exists which is extremely frustrating, like trying to beat the “haha man in a girl costume haha” joke into the ground so much even the actor(who is a real good guy too) spoke out against hating it, and it is even more disappointing because the top of DS9 talent worked on that too written by Ira and with a nod of approval from Piller? Yep nope.
Its a black spot on an otherwise amazing show though, always remember don’t hold hollywood libs as heroes and don’t expect to get burned at some point.
It also shouldn’t go unmentioned that the producers on the show prevented a lot of queer stuff from happening. There’s the episode of TNG where Frakes falls in love with a non-binary alien (who I believe was supposed to be played by a man, but was ultimately played by a woman) and then there’s all of Garak and Bashir, which only has a queer subtext due to the actors.
I love the shows, but like you said they were made by a lot of people and some of those people weren’t great.
Frakes is a mensch. He’d been talking about how he wanted a male actor in that guest role for decades. Who would have guessed in the mid 1980s that the man brought on for the Kirk Womanizer 2.0 role would have turned out to be among the best LGBT+ allies in the franchise, playing a character who had a basically flawless record for wanting extremely clear consent from partners?
Sometimes I wonder what TNG would have been like if Stewart had left the show after season 3 with Frakes taking on top billing. We might have even been spared the awful TNG movies where Stewart’s ego took over the writing room.
We might have a sick modern Ryker show instead of a meh Picard show.
The fact we never got Star Trek: Titan is something I’ll never forgive.
Best I can do is this (and it’s still kind of awesome).
That’s the scene that sold me on lower decks. I also love that the TNG theme is “Riker’s music”.
“haha man in a girl costume haha”
My wife’s been showing me Arrested Development so I know where all those memes came from, and while parts of the show are clever, “gay lol” “man in a girl costume lol” and even “creeping on children lol” are all recurring punchlines and it’s like a minefield of decades expired edginess to get to the good parts.
deleted by creator
Being-gay-is-a-punchline-and-is-synonymous-with-men-wearing-dresses was a fuuuuuucked up era of comedy that goes back probably further than I can remember.
deleted by creator
Bri’ish comedians when that can’t do transphobic jokes any more:
Well I guess we’re cancelled
weo oi guhs wuh gausaowd
deleted by creator
“It was the 90s” only goes so far tbh
Especially given the instances in the show where the actors wanted things to be more queer, but weren’t allowed. Frakes with the non-binary alien and Bashir/Garak come to mind. “It was the 90s” doesn’t work when several people on the show wanted more queer stuff and (as said above) didn’t approve of the homophobic shit that made it in.
The only good thing about Profit and Lace is that it shows that any type of gender transformation is a single day out-patient procedure in the Federation, which implies that pretty much anyone in the Trek universe could be trans.
wusband. hife.
EDIT: I just realized that was-band is probably a term for ex-husband
It’s been years since I watched DS9. Can someone remind me what her deal was again as it relates to this meme?
They’re an alien creature that lives many lifetimes, takes over hosts (with their consent) and in return extends the host’s lifetime. As a result the creature often changes gender (and species) when switching hosts. Canonically it’s established that they have the host’s consent but the series never really expands on that, it definitely seems murky as the creature seems to have complete control over the host’s body, though it’s hinted the host changes the creature’s thoughts and behaviors to an extent.
You mean a wise and powerful little friend wants to use my body and fix my life?Ohhh right, it’s all coming back to me.
That’s hilarious about Dax claiming it’s consensual but never explaining it. It’s a “slaves developed skills which, in some instances, could be applied for their personal benefit” vibe.
It’s explained as a true symbiosis that goes both ways. The symbiont’s mind changes just as much, and the host has a bevy of “past lives” to draw on the memories and skills of.
It’s considered a great honor to host a symbiont, to the point that they have to lie about how compatible they are because the symbionts themselves reproduce very slowly and are picky about their hosts. There’s not enough for every Trill to have one.
If the experience of being a host is basically getting mind altering levels of high and watching alien vlogs I’m more than down for that.
I loved the character of Ezri. In an odd way, she’s very relatable. Not the symbiont thing, but the “suddenly thrown into a situation out of her depth and trying to cope” thing. We’ve all been there at some point.
It’s explained in the TNG episode where the Trill and the symbionts are first introduced; iirc, the Enterprise carries some candidates for a joining, Crusher (or maybe Troi??) gets romantically involved with one of the Trill (maybe the host that is about to pass?), and through that relationship we learn some about the process for choosing a new host and that it’s a very coveted position. In DS9, iirc, it’s part of Jadzia’s backstory that she got into some of the studies and extracurriculars she did specifically because she wanted to be an especially appealing host when presented to the Dax symbiont.
Oh yeah I remember that episode now. This whole thread is making me want to rewatch 90s Star Trek.
You should do it! My partner and I are in the middle of watching the entire 90s run by air date (I set up a smart playlist on my plex server to make this automatic). It’s a lot of fun, we just finished TNG, DS9 is getting going after laying down its foundations, and Voyager just began.
I’m not a fan of Voyager, but I really respect Kate Mulgrew for doing her best with the sometimes-awful material she was given.
i watched voyager first and when i moved on from it i realized just how much mulgrew carried the show. picardo too. i liked the actors more than the characters.
I’m not far enough to judge Voyager just yet, but I can agree that up that Mulgrew is doing a fantastic job with some very “season 1 of a Star Trek show” stories. If she keeps up what she’s doing, she will definitely carry me through the show.
complete control
I feel like it’s sorta the other way around- when Dax moves to Ezri she has a completely different personality. She’s not a great leader, very lacking in confidence etc. I’d say the symbiont has a substantial effect on personality but otherwise acts like a store of memories for the humanoid host.
It is consent, the Trill train for years to even get opportunitty to be "joined
