• Maoo [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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    10 months ago

    I’ve also been here since the beginning and my memory serves me to tell me that not only was the volcel vanguard stuff here from the start, but it was here on the subreddit.

    The meme, sure. Horny posting wasn’t reigned in until a little later.

    And I’m sorry but even though you seem to remember a different early hexbear than I do, the fact that volcel police culture has always existed here since before hexbear even existed but harassment has still happened tells me that posting an emoji every time someone says something vaguely horny isnt actually fighting harassment.

    This just doesn’t make any sense whatsoever. No interventions aside from banning everyone and shutting the site down will mean harassment doesn’t happen anymore. Followed to its logical conclusion, you’d be opposed to every single attempt to reign in harassment. You aren’t saying we should do nothing, of course, but your logic makes no sense. I also already said this. Is there any chance you are frustrated and are responding in an escalatory way?

    And like you can cite marginalized groups but I know poc and/or queer people on this site who don’t agree with the anti-horny culture so.

    Of course. None of those groups as monoliths, so we should expect some diversity of opinion. This is not an argument against basically anything, ever. There are pro-cop black people, sex pest trans people, Nazi Latinos, etc etc (not saying anyone you’re talking about is any of those things, just pointing out that this is basically a generalization of the illogic of “I have a black friend so I can’t be racist”). We should weight positions and experiences in aggregate and on what actually works or does not for our goals.

    Feel free to collect your examples and present them to mods, i.e not me. I have seen far more people harassed off of the site than you’ve mentioned here.

    I actually do mod a small community

    How many active users per day?

    As for blahaj.zone, I only saw it a bit before defederation but I understand that the problem there is a smaller version of the problem on 196. Where the mods aren’t taking action against actual confirmed chasers being chasery. The problem that a community like that is going to experience is how to allow, for example, transbians the beauty of other trans women (which is what a LOT of the posts on 196 that attract chasers seem to be initially) without attracting/allowing chasers

    They inherently run at odds and that’s why those spaces are full of chasers and sexual harassment. Even if your mods do their best, the people you attract to those spaces will be more likely to be fetishizing and only there to do so and you’ll only be able to remove offending content, not prevent people from initially seeing it. Also in case it’s relevant, for infosec reasons in a left space we should never encourage people to post pictures of themselves, even for 100% valid affirmation.

    This doesn’t just apply to queer posting, it’s for anyone that gets fetishized. For example, places that allow sexual posts of the most normative cis women ever also have this problem. This is before getting into the inherent challenge of supporting people while objectifying them, which I won’t state a conclusion on other than to say that it can go wrong very easily.

    For me the answer on a trans focused community is not to ban transbians from vocally being attracted to other trans women

    I don’t think that applies here, does it?

    And if chasers are attracted by posts like that… y’all really think its a good idea to punish trans women for the behavior of cis chasers?

    Do you think that’s a fair characterization? I’ll just note that one of the people we had to kick out of an irl org for harassment was exclusively t4t.

    • VOLCEL_POLICE [it/its]@hexbear.netB
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      10 months ago

      The people’s VOLCEL VANGUARD are on the scene! PLEASE RESERVE YOUR PRECIOUS BODILY FLUIDS FOR STRATEGIC ACTS OF MASS REVOLUTIONARY CUMMING!!!

      volcel-vanguard

    • autismdragon [he/him, they/them]@hexbear.net
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      10 months ago

      I think we’re talking about different things here sort of. The blahaj/196 stuff isnt relevant to Hexbear like you said but, I completely agree that we should do what we can to curb harassment. I just dont think a lot of the cases of volcel police culture being cited are actually examples of harassment, and that embarrassing people with the meme over the kind of jokes and such they are making isnt going to help curb harassment or fetishization. Let alone actual moderator intervention (which like admittedly, I do have a specific case of what I feel was huge moderator/reporter overreach that sticks in my craw, but I had this opinion well before that happened, I just have an example now). Its just going to end up with cases like Twink where the person feels embarrassed for expressing queer sexuality and leaving the site. And like yeah, I’ll admit, the fact that Twink left over that was somewhat formative for me. It upset me that our culture repressed him so much that he felt unwelcome as a queer person. Should that outweigh the people harassed off the site? No. But as I keep saying I dont think the volcel police culture actually helps with harassment that much, at least in the situations I see it being used.

      So no, I’m not opposed to reigning in harassment. I disagree with how its been done. If someone directs hornyness publicly at another user, curb that. But Ive seen volcel police used in situations that arent that at all. In situations where its just repressive.

      How many active users per day?

      Extremally small lol. Like 20 people. Just saying I dont have no experience moderating this sort of issue because I had to mediate one mostly by myself. But a small friends server isnt the same as Hexbear, we’re in agreement on that.

      • VOLCEL_POLICE [it/its]@hexbear.netB
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        10 months ago

        The people’s VOLCEL VANGUARD are on the scene! PLEASE RESERVE YOUR PRECIOUS BODILY FLUIDS FOR STRATEGIC ACTS OF MASS REVOLUTIONARY CUMMING!!!

        volcel-vanguard

      • Maoo [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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        10 months ago

        Understandable! I’m really not justifying whatever is up with the JoJo post and didn’t follow what happened with Twink, I’ve just seen what happens when horny stuff isn’t quashed and it’s very, very bad. I wouldn’t call it puritanical because it’s not that sex or horniness is itself wrong or should have any shame, just that socialist spaces benefit from a detachment from horny posting, sexualizing each other, acting as a dating pool, etc.

        Having a culture against that means you can head off the development of things that push the real boundaries. It’s not that a random bonk necessarily prevented an immediate case of harassment, but that is hard for things to go farther. Folks won’t innocently think, “oh yes this is a good forum for complimenting that person’s ass maybe they’ll send me some pics of I ask” because there is no culture anywhere near that here. Not that I’d be surprised if that still happens, it just wouldn’t happen accidentally.