Did america getting its ass kicked mean friendship? I hear alot that vietnam likes america more than china which doesnt sit right with me is that actually true, also they like america but hate the french? I heard vietnam be called the mexico of asia. Maybe its my own personal left wing bias but I literally cannot see any reason why vietnam would respect america and hate china.
We embargoed Vietnam until 1994, IMO we changed strategy and improved our relationship with them primarily as a hedge against China (you know this is the case because Joe Biden recently said that it’s not lmao). In South Korea and Japan we hedge against China by forcing a bunch of military bases onto them, but since Vietnam isn’t a vassal state we had to take a different approach, and bear in mind that 1994 was the Clinton administration, when our country’s global credibility wasn’t completely in the toilet as it is now, so we were able to make deals and actually build something, in this case US-Vietnamese relations.
Vietnam had sided with the USSR during the Sino-Soviet split for a lot of reasons, and without the USSR they were looking for a new non-Chinese friend and major trading partner, a role which we gladly took on. Vietnamese people generally have positive interactions with Americans, since most Americans who visit are older tourists or military members who spend a lot of money but don’t actually live in the country long enough to commit a bunch of crimes (not that crimes don’t happen, it’s just fewer than what SK and JP have to deal with). Combine that with the Vietnamese-Americans who maintain relations with their families in the mother country (the fact that many of them fled the South because they were afraid of the Communists redistributing their land is water under the bridge by now), and you have a recipe for a lot of soft power to build up in a very short amount of time.
deleted by creator
war hero, but he lives in LA.
If that’s not a flex on America then I don’t know what is.
deleted by creator
Slightly lesser flex but I’ll take it.
deleted by creator
Lol, I’m reminded of a Chinese university buddy of mine who used to troll our professor (who got really angry about it) with stories of how his grandfather used to kill American troops in Korea (at the time I didn’t even know China participated).
Sharing borders with China, they have culturally-held reservations /anger /fear /disgruntledness about China’s influence and effects reaching within their lands, and believes China had invaded them or ruled over them unfairly at various points from ancient times to the Vietnamese Communist era, etc etc. All the typical love-and-hate between lands that were side by side for thousands of years with endless cycles of good times and bad. Relationship status: it’s complicated.
So Vietnam geopolitically aims to find other great powers—USA in this case, USSR in the past, etc—to counter balance China. Simultaneously, they have been part of the sinosphere for centuries and does know the need and the how of working WITH China too.
I suppose the 1979 incursion would be fresh in the memory of the Vietnamese political apparatus; more so than other alleged historical transgressions.
deleted by creator
Shouldn’t the smaller communist country just roll over for the bigger one?
no, because AES countries run by communist parties aren’t stateless, classless, moneyless societies.
I think its bad for communist countries to fights eachother. Shouldnt we want vietnam to sour relations with america and become closer to china? Surely the sentiment about america in vietnam isnt all positive, how can they not hate my country more than I do? They’re actual fucking communists!
Sure, in the abstract, we would like there to be a united communist front against the USA.
But in practice, what does Vietnam want? Survival. You think they are keen for another war with the USA? They already had to deal with decades of warfare and even more economic warfare.
deleted by creator
“Vietnam is closer to the US than China” is just Western cope like how Putler would run out of missiles. In truth, Vietnam try to be neutral to both countries, which means de facto being closer to China than US because they shares a land border with China while the US is separated from Vietnam by an ocean.
This, the core of Vietnamese foreign policy is “never get drawn into a foreign war again”
I wonder if the friendship is still reciprocated in Russia? You never hear about the two together.
deleted by creator
I have only seen polls where Vietnamese opinion on the US is comfortably positive ,annoyingly so, while opinions towards China are at the absolute best close to 50-50
The government is more pragmatic but the population adores America and worships them on levels close to the Philippines. Soft power goes a long way.
I feel a bit embarrassed to tell personal anecdotes, but here I go…
I visited Hanoi in 2005. Most people very nice, but I did feel random animosity from older men (were they vets?). Occasionally they would insult me (I assume, I speak zero Vietnamese). I’d get a the ground near my feet spat at. It was fine, but I felt the vibe.
I went last year, and felt none of it. I can’t get over the level of interest and respect that I got, a very mediocre middle aged white dude. Multiple times I had people far beyond my level of cool trying to be my best mate. Also I got beaten in chess by 7 different people who were super humble about their ability.
Edit: I forgot the add, people complained about China a lot.
America is now out of their space and is a trading partner whereas they share a border with China and have South China Sea disputes. China and America are rivals so it makes some sort of sense for the Vietnamese to pick the one not too close to annoy the other.
you mean east sea disputes
Remember the time Tito threatened to murder Stalin?
Depends on where you are and which map you use.
well we’re talking about viet nam and basically none of us anglophones know what Biển Đông means
In what way does it make sense for Vietnam to annoy its largest trading partner, with which it shares a border?
They have always had a poor relationship with China over border issues even during the Vietnam war. They probably just make it clear that the Chinese don’t intimidate them.
deleted by creator
China was at war with Vietnam more recently than the US, and they have a number of border disputes.
