“Some of you may be willing to die, but that’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make” but unironically
Edit: The user has since apologised https://hexbear.net/comment/3848285
“Some of you may be willing to die, but that’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make” but unironically
Edit: The user has since apologised https://hexbear.net/comment/3848285
I have not cheered for anything. I regret this situation as much as anyone. I simply think that it’s plain silly to capitulate to a mafia state that kidnaps and “re-educates” your children, bombs your hospitals and schools, massacres your villages and whose leaders have openly questioned the need for a Ukranian identity. I also think it’s quite telling that these “peace appeals” are only made to Ukraine, even though it takes two to tango and Ukraine isn’t the one trespassing.
Well first off: if we’re just making shit up, you might as well get creative with it. The Russians are actually harvesting the Orgon energy of the Ukrainians in order to fuel a massive necromantic rite that will imbue a thousand golems with life, which will create an indestructible army of russian super soldiers.
Secondly: The Russians aren’t actually just bombing hospitals and murdering children, I don’t know where you get these claims from, but you might’ve confused Russia with the US and Ukraine with Iraq. Even if the Russians were copying the American Shock and Awe strategy of warfare, that still doesn’t really change anything does it? The Ukrainians still can’t win, the longer they fight, the worse their negotiating position will be. But you think they still should fight.
So just to be clear: You think the Ukrainians should continue to be killed by the Russian military as they attack the defensive positions? You want this war to continue until all Ukrainians are dead? I just want to be sure I understand your position, which seems to be that you want all the Ukrainians to die and then Russia can just pick the corpse of the country as it wants.
Wow dude, this little number you’ve written here has so many logical fallacies and projections.
First of all, in no way am I defending the US invasions of the Middle East. Shit was bad and unnecessary.
Second of all, Russians are absolutely bombing hospitals and buildings full of children. They bombed a building in Mariupol that was used to house children and had that written on the roof. I’m also worried that they’re kidnapping children and robbing them of their Ukranian identity.
I think the war should continue for as long as Ukrainians are willing to fight. And not because I’m a cartoon villain that wants them all to die; I think any deal with Russia’s mafia leadership isn’t worth the paper it’s printed on. The Russians have already stomped all over the Budapest memorandum that guaranteed Ukraine’s territorial sovereignty, why would they honor any other deal? At best the Russians would use the peacetime to resupply and rearm and try again later.
The people who lied to you about those wars are telling you today’s war is totally a good one. Why would you believe them?
because russia is bad country
I don’t like being painted as someone who is told what to think. I do not think the Ukraine war is a “good one”, there are no “good” wars. I simply empathize more with the victims of imperialism and not the perpetrators of imperialism.
imperialism isn’t “when a country invades another country” for fuck’s sake, stop dressing your libshit in the facade of left-wing rhetoric.
That’s a challenge rating impossible. I see libs do this constantly. Invasion=imperialism for them, i think mostly because like you said, they want to use our words to sound more left wing even though they don’t know what they’re saying
I wasn’t saying you were. Improve your reading comprehension.
I wasn’t saying they weren’t, improve your reading comprehension. I was saying they weren’t doing these things on purpose.
I’m worried they might conscript the tooth fairy. As other users have already noted in this very thread, Russia is actually contacting families in order to reconnect them with their children.
You mean the Ukrainians that are being forcibly conscripted and prevented from leaving the country so they can be forcibly conscripted? Seems like they don’t want to fight if you ask me.
The Budapest memorandum??? You have got to be kidding me. A 30-year old document written shortly after the collapse of the USSR is somehow worthy of discussion? And it’s Russia that should be critiqued for breaching it? Euromaidan was a coup of the Ukrainian government led by far right militias funded by the United States Department, which then installed their own puppet government with their picked stooges. This government then continually shelled another russian-speaking part of Ukraine for 8 years (in spite of other treaties I might add). The Budapest memorandum was already trampled by the United States and then Ukraine itself.
Of course later treaties were written - like Minsk II, which was breached continually by Ukraine. Russia did seek diplomatic solutions before invading - which I think was an overreaction, but pretending it was unprovoked is silly.
Yet you think Ukraine should be worried Russia won’t follow treaties?
Of course I know what you will do, you will call me a bot or dismiss this as propaganda or drivel or whatever else. I also know what you won’t do: you wo t engage with the argument, and you won’t take the time to check it. You will dismiss it, because you are incapable of actually considering you might be misinformed.
Edit: And since we’re pulling treaties out of our ass, what of that of NATO encroachment? The agreement that NATO would not incorporate ex Soviet countries? That which had been broken, and which was being waved around at the time of the invasion, that’s of course nothing right? Because that different because we’re the ones doing it.
Wait a sec, Egon. How would you know that? If you don’t, why claim it? There have been a lot of attacks on civilian infrastructure and reckless attacks in civilian areas. I’m not quite convinced that russia is as innocent as you seem to believe.
There is no proof that Russia is deliberately targeting civilian infrastructure like hospitals. Likewise there is no proof it isn’t - how do you prove a negative?
We can however observe the slow pace in the beginning of the war, where Russia broke with modern doctrine of taking out critical infrastructure.
We can also look at the many long lasting sieges of large cities, where Russia made sure to create humanitarian corridors (the corridors that have received immense critique for being kidnapping operations somehow).
We can also think for ourselves: if Russia was deliberately targeting such buildings, why did it not do so at the start of the war, and why does it not target all of these building, or target them in such a way that they are permanently and completely destroyed?
What’s more likely: Russia is deliberately targeting schools and hospitals (but only kinda) in order to kill civilians because… Russia is just super evil? These deliberate acts of violence are carried out against a population that has shared a border with Russia for more than a century, with many russian citizens having family and friends in the country, yet Russia just wants to murder civilians.
OR Russia is fighting a war against an enemy that uses civilians as human shields and the war is often in large urban centres, which means that civilian targets are nigh impossible to completely avoid?
Why would you think the best of russia to begin with? They send conscripts & mobilized citizens off to a war that didn’t need to happen. They prevent many of their own from leaving the country… it’s the poor who will suffer the most.
Why now and not in the beginning? I don’t know for sure, but wars often end when one side loses the will to fight … maybe they are trying to wear down the will of the Ukrainians and allies? If the Ukrainian media is to believed, it doesn’t seem to be working. It sounds like it will be a long one.
Edit: Your last link didn’t link to the original OHCHR report, and presents a one-sided view. You can find the proper report linked to from here: https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2022/07/high-commissioner-human-rights-high-numbers-civilian-casualties-ukraine
I try not to assume anything. Which is why I responded to you with observable facts.
I then led these lead to ask you questions, which you fail to answer. You also fail to engage with the arguments presented to you, instead inventing a reality of your own whole cloth.
Russia is not preventing people from leaving Ukraine is. Russia has, as I’ve said already ensured to create humanitarian corridors for which it has been critiqued. Russia isn’t the one using civilians as human shields, Ukraine is [1] [2].
I frankly find it insulting how you keep asking questions, get responses and then choose to write these half-assed replies barely responding to the content of what the other writes to you. Fuck you.
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the favorite thing that pro-Ukraine libs love to do is make up a goal for Russia out of thin air and then boast that they haven’t achieved it. as if they uniquely understand and can remotely probe the Slavic brain with their superior Western minds. If Ukraine puts combatants inside hospitals or schools, which they have done, then Russia is under no obligation to not hit them. clearly, Russia’s track record of not bombing hospitals or schools with civilians inside isn’t 100%, because that’s almost impossible to do in a war this size without clairvoyant abilities - there is always uncertainty. we don’t excuse those hits when they happen, but let’s also not pretend that Ukraine hasn’t been hitting Russian civilian buildings too.
so you support the struggle of the DPR and LPR against Ukraine?
sorry not totally clear, you talking about USA?
How did the US. get Putin to invade Ukraine? I’m trying to follow the logic but I keep getting stuck on that one.
Weird, I got this as a reply but then it was just gone:
So the implication is that the Russian invasion was (and continues to be?) a false flag?
Yeah, I’m still not seeing how the US got Putin to go along with this false flag, any more details?
They were engaging in a dang whataboutism
Its a cheeky joke that is wondering why the United States has the moral authority to hypocritically police another state for actions that the USA engages in regularly and yet does not receive a fraction of the pushback.
It’s also worth pointing out, however, that the USA has been stoking the flames of Russian-Ukraine conflict for decades beginning with Operation Aerodynamics.
I love this bot
I would guess that US’s ability to project both hard and soft power grants them the opportunity to do so. I can’t speak to moral authority since you’d have to get everyone to agree on a moral authority to even have that discussion. I’m literally just trying to figure out what everyone thinks is actually happening, but everyone here seems content to stop at entertaining themselves with their own words.
It seems to me that Putin thought he had this same ability to influence the world around him, but misjudged his and his country’s ability to do either of those things, and is now reaping the rewards of that misjudgement. Sovereignty seems to be a sword of many edges for him.
Yeah that’s fair, these threads aren’t great for getting a sense of what people’s ideas are here. Especially since folks end up fairly antagonistic and the comments pile up. If you are curious, Here is a pretty good comment on the war, and I do recommend using the search function and just perusing the longer (especially sourced, read the sources!) and more effortful comments.
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