Maybe not really a question, more of a vent. But 5 years ago I was doing lib issue activism (let me keep it vague to not get myself doxxed). I was close to this person in the org. We even got so close that we went on holidays together. When they were in this hospital for a week, I was there every fecking day.
Over the course of our short but intense friendship, I started to notice that literally every time we met, they were shit talking other activists. I did say that they needed to discuss it with the person in question, I did let them know it wasn’t cool. I also noticed that there was a lot of drama between them and other members. When shit happened, it was always “let me send out a ten paragraph email on why that activist is shit, but never CC the person in”. And always, this former friend was never wrong about anything, could never apologise, which frankly is one of my big pet peeves. Heck, I apologise and self-crit constantly.
Back in 2019, I said that I don’t like having people raise their voice to me and order me around, as this former friend liked to do. Over a course of a month, lots of former friends become really cold to me without reason. People stopped replying to texts. I asked for an explanation but got none. After 3 months, I was officially removed from the group’s Whatsapp group by this former friend. When I asked for an explanation, they blocked me. I swear to god, I was never given an explanation. For the benefit of the movement, I didn’t make a big deal out of it. Although it hurt like shit.
It led to 2 years of feeling suicidal, depression, medication, and therapy. After which I became a much harder leftist. Fuck rich people like them.
I’m not saying I was perfect. Lib ButtBidet was pretty dramatic, and lacked people and coping skills back then. Nowadays, when friendships need to die, I like them die gracefully, and just more slowly reply to texts and shit. There’s no point and feeling sad that a friend won’t admit to making a mistake and keeps making it, it’s best to move on.
AFAIK, the movement that we were in together is now dead locally. I strongly suspect it has a lot to do with this person’s toxicity, as they tend to have their “activist enemy of the day” but honestly it could be anything.
Anyhow, since then I’ve joined a local left org, and we’ve been doing very well. I’ve been doing it for 4 years and it’s great. I’m one of the key organisers. Now this old activist friend has started showing up to our events. I can’t explicitly kick them out, because they’re not racist or anything. But honestly gossiping and not apologising are pretty toxic traits for an org. I tried to explain it to the other key people but it’s just empathy and shrugs. I get it, the person hasn’t doing violence or anything.
Thanks for letting me vent
No, it’s not weird that you’re apprehensive about an actual wrecker you saw wreck a previous org.
I guess, hopefully they’ve changed but I’ve grown so cynical about bad faith people ever changing. They’re showing up to (?explicitly) leftist events so that’s a plus I guess.
I never thought about applying a Hexbear word (wrecker) to a real life situation, so that was helpful. Thank you comrade.
If you’re up to it, I’d go talk to them at the next meeting. Meet it head on, mention what happened in the last org (at least with them removing you) and see how they react. Pretty easy to tell then if they’ve also grown as a person. If they haven’t, now you can use this to discuss more with longer time members and at least make them aware of this person’s previous behavior, lack of growth, and potential danger to the org
It’s not even a hexbear word, it’s a soviet term originally afaik
Best of luck with the whole situation!
a soviet term originally afaik
really???
I thought it was just an internet term. is it subcultural to the left even? i never noticed
yes! wrecking was in fact a crime in the soviet union (warning: NATOpedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrecking_(Soviet_Union) ) and it’s been a widespread term on the left for decades, presumably for that reason?
unfortunately no prolewiki article, but there’s probably a better source out there somewhere
thanks that is rly interesting!!
now i know
Nah fuck em drama shit is wrecker shit
Also while they may not be a fed, always ask, what would a fed do to fuck this org?
“At best a wrecker, at worst a fed” is the description of someone I don’t want in my organization lmao
Yeah, fuck 'em. You don’t want to be looking over your shoulder at every meeting because the organization is afraid of confronting someone who creates drama.
to extend this, the way I was taught to think about it is that they might be a fed (cop, agent, etc), or they may just be a person who for their own idiosyncratic reasons, acts exactly the way a fed would act. I have met people I am 99% certain are feds. Or conversely am 99% sure are just organically destructive without any external motivation because it’s the only way they know how to be. And lots ambiguous cases where you go back n forth in opinion, or maybe in truth there is a mix going on.
But at the end of the day you gotta manage them and it’s not gonna be much different between the two situations. The org needs to be robust enough to withstand an intentional attack from enemies or the attentions of a nasty person. The longer a left project goes on, the more success it has and the more public it is, the higher the chances you will attract one or the other or both.
Tldr: if it quacks like a fed, treat it like a fed.
Idk what the dynamics are in your org but “this person manipulates personal power dynamics to advance their own interests at the cost of the organizations effectiveness” is a valid reason to boot them and deny them membership.
Nah fuck that loser. They’ll get into your new org and do the same shit either to you or to other people. Keep that toxicity very far away
It’s a completely healthy reaction to not want someone who seemingly destroyed an org in your new org. It would be ridiculous to let them in without, at the very least, serious scrutiny, or to just bar them altogether.
if you can’t get anyone in the org on your side after explaining the whole story as you understand it, i think you could approach this person directly. probably not with an accusation at first, but just asking what exactly they think happened with the old group. i believe they’ll have a much harder time coming in to a space where people already know you trying to wreck as an outsider. if and when they attempt to do exactly what you said they’d do, your comrades will realize what’s going on.
1000% valid. You’ve already warned your comrades so hopefully they keep that in mind. I believe in second chances but at the first sign of BS i hope you can just quietly remind people of your warning and they listen.
We had a similar issue in a local org where there was a particular organizer who was always beefing with someone. It sucked because they were actually pretty active, but was just a toxic person and when pushed back on it just got even more agitated with no self reflection and proceeded to spend days in the chat just ranting about people. Luckily everyone else wanted to talk about organizing and was being interrupted by this shit so it was easy to agree to just boot them from the org.
I think you are justified, they are a toxic person and you dont want them ruining the new local org you are in with their toxicity.
Your concerns do not sound weird or selfish. People do change but that doesn’t mean they should not face elevated scrutiny. You’re around them and you know best. You have the trust from people in your organization. Share your concerns. Kick them out before they have the chance to do damage.
Yeah I would talk to other people in the organisation, be honest and truthful about what the situation is. Basically ask them whether they want someone who is likely harmful in the org. If this other person is willing to do some honest selfcrit maybe that might make things better? But if not then, this is likely a person who will undermine what you’re trying to build.
One question I would have is whatever happened in the old lib group? Wouldn’t be surprised if this person eventually got themselves run out of it or it folded due to chaos. There might be insightful gossip available to you.
For me personally, with situations like this I am inclined to consider the person’s age. If they were 17 and now 23 that’s a much high probability of change compared to 40 now 45.
But all this talk about change and no idea if person in question is even claiming to have changed.
