acknowledging [Hitler] was, in fact, an effective leader
Wasn’t his leadership famous for being incredibly dysfunctional? Like there wasn’t a single thing about the Nazi “state” as it was that was even remotely functional at any point
“He fixed the economy” is a typical one. It’s wrong though, he didnt, nazi Germany was in massive debt and plagued by unemployment. Short term it got a little bit better because he checks notes seized the wealth of minority groups and then forced them to do slave labour.
Even “the Nazis made the trains run on time” meme is a myth, trains were few in number, expensive, and very frequently cancelled and late in Germany and Italy under fascist governments.
There’s a chance they could have won if he wasn’t such a unpredictable idiot who loved to be random and do military strategy based on how he was feeling that moment.
Literally every fascist empire is doomed to fail eventually because their core ideology and entire economy relies on violent expansion and exploitation of those they see as lesser. They always spread themselves too thin and weaken their armies by waging constant war with either neighboring nations or their own people. Even if they ran out of outsiders to fight and steal from, they would eventually turn on themselves as the final adversary. We’re seeing it happen right now in the West with the rich cannibalizing their own countries as much as possible, practically ripping the copper wiring out to maintain some form of dominance.
The endgame of fascism is that only the two most fascist people remain on Earth, and then the most fascist person executes the second most fascist person for removed.
Actually wild how similar they were. Low in infrustructure, industry and manpower. Almost zero navy and under constant blockade. Won early battles before the oppositions full war machine was assembled, while in ground that favored them. But as soon as conditions changed they started losing. If it wasnt flat ground and it wasnt summer they were impotent.
But they had good officers and some of their soldiers had fancy rifles. Which means they tooooootaly should’ve won.
There is no situation in which Germany wins. Like even if one starts rolling back history with “well what if they weren’t sabotaging themselves with [insert literally any core Fascist ideological policy here]?” there is just no scenario where them being more competent and less self-destructive actually sees them through. A more competent Germany would have killed significantly more people before losing, but their loss was ultimately a material inevitability.
Not a chance. The Nazis straight up didn’t have the resources to wage the kind of war they fought. The only way to win would have been to somehow ally with the “Allies” (not out of the realm of possibility, to be fair) and get shipments of materiel and fuel that way. They simply did not have the oil to wage a war against anyone, and that meant no tanks, no trucks, and no navy.
They could not have won. Their army and their “reich” collapsed the moment they suffered a major defeat. The Soviet Union by comparison suffered horrific defeats and losses in the early stages of the eastern front and the nation rallied back and won the war. Why couldn’t the Germans do this? Because their “reich” was nothing more than plundering Europe, and it fell apart when it encountered its first test of resilience. The thousands of miles of captured territory was quickly lost despite plenty of opportunities to build and create contingencies in the event their offensives failed. They didn’t do it. They didn’t have a back up plan, or a way to transition their military into fighting a war of attrition.
The militant fascism required them to invade everything and everyone as quickly as possible. To try to fabricate a scenario where the Nazis made smart and long-term war winning decisions is to effectively make them not Nazis to begin with. You can argue that they may have had more success if Rommel was given command of everything but he never would have been able to create the political movement that gave him the tools in the first place. To speculate further is to create an alternate history scenario where everything went perfect for the Nazis and they had a dramatic regime and ideology change in the midst of their conquests.
Victory for the Nazis was total domination and nothing else. Conquering and holding Europe alone would never have been seen as “winning the war”, at least as far as they were concerned.
The argument can be made that any military force could have won if they just made no mistakes and got lucky everywhere they needed to. Despite having most of the cards in their favor early on, they lost. That isn’t a reflection of how close they were to victory, but how fragile their victories had been.
Nah, the Nazis had no real chance. Really, they only got as far as they did because the Soviet Union fumbled at the beginning. Once the deficiencies were dealt with, it was game over. The closest chance the Nazis could get would be if Fascist Japan completely threw away their chance of forming their own fascist empire by (re)invading the Soviet Union. You could have a not completely implausible scenario where the IJA/IJN put enough of a fight and the Soviet Union is forced to fight two fronts, a western front with Nazi Germany and an eastern front with Fascist Japan. This completely unrealistic scenario would also involve the US staying out of the war because Japan decided to commit suicide by invading Siberia via Manchuria instead of bombing Pearl Harbor.
Wasn’t his leadership famous for being incredibly dysfunctional? Like there wasn’t a single thing about the Nazi “state” as it was that was even remotely functional at any point
Effective at leading people by appealing to their emotions, not so great at leading the nation/economy or the military during war
Literally his only skill was inciting violence
That’s the one redditors care about most.
He was also a great drug dealer
And user!
Did you know that Kristallnacht caused a Reich-wide foreign exchange crisis because of the sudden demand for imported glass?
Wonder which Euronazi company that’s still functioning today was responsible for producing Reich glass with slave labor
Speaking of that: Did you know the same company that delivered Zyclon B to the camps is now delivering anti-graffiti-spray to the holocaust memorial?
Iirc many of the Kristallnacht glass orders went to Belgium at the time.
I’m assuming that the Euronazi company in question still makes Kristallnacht glass and severed chocolate hands to this day.
“He fixed the economy” is a typical one. It’s wrong though, he didnt, nazi Germany was in massive debt and plagued by unemployment. Short term it got a little bit better because he checks notes seized the wealth of minority groups and then forced them to do slave labour.
Even “the Nazis made the trains run on time” meme is a myth, trains were few in number, expensive, and very frequently cancelled and late in Germany and Italy under fascist governments.
There’s a chance they could have won if he wasn’t such a unpredictable idiot who loved to be random and do military strategy based on how he was feeling that moment.
Maybe a chance if they didn’t invade the SU, but that was also like 75% of his political platform.
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Literally every fascist empire is doomed to fail eventually because their core ideology and entire economy relies on violent expansion and exploitation of those they see as lesser. They always spread themselves too thin and weaken their armies by waging constant war with either neighboring nations or their own people. Even if they ran out of outsiders to fight and steal from, they would eventually turn on themselves as the final adversary. We’re seeing it happen right now in the West with the rich cannibalizing their own countries as much as possible, practically ripping the copper wiring out to maintain some form of dominance.
The endgame of fascism is that only the two most fascist people remain on Earth, and then the most fascist person executes the second most fascist person for removed.
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Pittsburgh produced more steel than the Axis
Similar deal doomed the Confederacy in the 1800s.
Scary thought is what happens when fascists seize the industrial advantage then do the fascism.
Actually wild how similar they were. Low in infrustructure, industry and manpower. Almost zero navy and under constant blockade. Won early battles before the oppositions full war machine was assembled, while in ground that favored them. But as soon as conditions changed they started losing. If it wasnt flat ground and it wasnt summer they were impotent.
But they had good officers and some of their soldiers had fancy rifles. Which means they tooooootaly should’ve won.
it’s going to be the same when the US starts a war with China, after exporting its industrial capacity.
There is no situation in which Germany wins. Like even if one starts rolling back history with “well what if they weren’t sabotaging themselves with [insert literally any core Fascist ideological policy here]?” there is just no scenario where them being more competent and less self-destructive actually sees them through. A more competent Germany would have killed significantly more people before losing, but their loss was ultimately a material inevitability.
Not a chance. The Nazis straight up didn’t have the resources to wage the kind of war they fought. The only way to win would have been to somehow ally with the “Allies” (not out of the realm of possibility, to be fair) and get shipments of materiel and fuel that way. They simply did not have the oil to wage a war against anyone, and that meant no tanks, no trucks, and no navy.
They could not have won. Their army and their “reich” collapsed the moment they suffered a major defeat. The Soviet Union by comparison suffered horrific defeats and losses in the early stages of the eastern front and the nation rallied back and won the war. Why couldn’t the Germans do this? Because their “reich” was nothing more than plundering Europe, and it fell apart when it encountered its first test of resilience. The thousands of miles of captured territory was quickly lost despite plenty of opportunities to build and create contingencies in the event their offensives failed. They didn’t do it. They didn’t have a back up plan, or a way to transition their military into fighting a war of attrition.
The militant fascism required them to invade everything and everyone as quickly as possible. To try to fabricate a scenario where the Nazis made smart and long-term war winning decisions is to effectively make them not Nazis to begin with. You can argue that they may have had more success if Rommel was given command of everything but he never would have been able to create the political movement that gave him the tools in the first place. To speculate further is to create an alternate history scenario where everything went perfect for the Nazis and they had a dramatic regime and ideology change in the midst of their conquests.
Victory for the Nazis was total domination and nothing else. Conquering and holding Europe alone would never have been seen as “winning the war”, at least as far as they were concerned.
The argument can be made that any military force could have won if they just made no mistakes and got lucky everywhere they needed to. Despite having most of the cards in their favor early on, they lost. That isn’t a reflection of how close they were to victory, but how fragile their victories had been.
The Nazis couldn’t have won. Every scenario wherein they win is a scenario wherein they’re not Nazis.
Good video on the subject
Nah, the Nazis had no real chance. Really, they only got as far as they did because the Soviet Union fumbled at the beginning. Once the deficiencies were dealt with, it was game over. The closest chance the Nazis could get would be if Fascist Japan completely threw away their chance of forming their own fascist empire by (re)invading the Soviet Union. You could have a not completely implausible scenario where the IJA/IJN put enough of a fight and the Soviet Union is forced to fight two fronts, a western front with Nazi Germany and an eastern front with Fascist Japan. This completely unrealistic scenario would also involve the US staying out of the war because Japan decided to commit suicide by invading Siberia via Manchuria instead of bombing Pearl Harbor.
The most common view conservatives publicly say about Hitler is basically “best leader ever, except for that one thing.”
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