I genuinely feel like America bombing the hell out of so many countries in Africa just naturally would endear those countries to anyone except America and their Western vassals, but apparently a lot of twitter users can’t seem to comprehend that.
Is whatever debt these countries incur worse than the IMF? Are the consequences anywhere near as bad?
I usually like to start from the position that the leaders of these countries know what they’re doing (something Western twitter users don’t), so I personally doubt it’s anywhere near as bad as people claim, and no matter how bad it is, I don’t believe for a moment it could be as bad as the IMF.
Let’s also not forget that China has forgiven interest free loans to African nations: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-08-23/china-to-waive-some-africa-loans-offer-10-billion-in-imf-funds
Ah, thanks for the info; I do recall reading about this before but it felt as though the news undersold China’s actions.
I often think about a conversation I had with a liberal who was basically asking me to convince them that China isn’t an evil gommulist world security threat. I was contrasting China’s foreign policy and economic actions against the west’s and how the IMF just straight up does debt peonage and cripples nations, while China offers deals and doesn’t use threats and military pressure to force acquiescence. After explaining that China’s tactic towards Africa and the rest of the developing nations is to try to help them develop themselves into successful, rich economies so that they can engage in mutually beneficial trade with China, and China even forgives some loans to those nations as a result of that longterm interest, he gave me a knowing look and smugly said “Ohhhh, I see what they’re doing, heh heh.”
He still thinks China’s evil, he just now thinks they’re evil because they’re using dastardly good, helpful tactics instead of starting wars, coups, and genocides. Fucking liberals.
I’m personally trying a different tactic with liberals and instead asking them if they were an African country, given these two possibilities (China or America + other imperialist/former colonialist/neocolonialist countries), who would they honestly consider the better business partner; I’d also remind them Libya (the most prosperous African country) was once really close to America and look where they are now. I’d also ask them if they consider African people mentally inferior because all they have to do is hear what African leaders who denounce the US and France (and Germany in at least one case) have to say and whether they think African people aren’t intelligent enough to choose for themselves. I tell them Africa’s former colonial masters certainly felt African people weren’t capable of governing themselves, perhaps they think Africa should be run by Western countries again (or I will the next time this comes up).
Of course the people on the other side of this question are liberals; I’m not getting my hopes up. As BlackAdder once said: “The eyes are open, the mouth moves, but Mr Brain has long since departed, hasn’t he, Perce?”
I’d be interested to hear if you have any success!
It’s important to first understand how the west lends to Africa:
Michael Hudson discusses the IMF and World Bank: Partners in Backwardness
Then understand that Chinese loans are nothing like that. Lower interest rates relative to the west. Invested in activities that develop the productive forces. And Chinese don’t make demands about increasing taxes, cutting social spending, or forcing public assets to be privatized.
Ah, thanks (I’m also grateful to the other two posters but I’m a bit dim to understand the charts the first reply). China staying out of internal politics (as frankly any nation should; the heck are lending countries doing trying to interfere with another country’s choices?) is grand, and I’m deeply disgusted at how successful the propaganda has been about it.
I’ll check the link soon, but the stuff you’ve said has been hugely informative, thank you.
Bruh I’m a bit dim, I can’t parse this info all that well (although thank you for the link)
private bondholders (your local vulture funds) hold 180 bln, while china holds 65 billion (85 together with private chinese banks or around 14 percent of the total). Thats all ignoring imf and others
So saying its chinese debt trap is like saying your credit card is sinking you while you have mortgage.
Ah, thank you
Oh look at that, the debt Africa owes China is like 10% and even that share has leveled off, if not slowly decreasing.
China offers them better interest rates and doesn’t require “structural adjustments”.
The US says this is cheating.
The IMF has been forcing African countries to cut public spending and privatize industries since the 1980s, crumbling healthcare centers and education sectors.
Western-backed projects are left half-finished of crumbling within years, but countries still have to pay back debts.
Eurobond interest rates can be up to 16% for African countries, while Western countries pay 1%.
Western oil companies spill more oil in Nigeria every year for the past 50 years, than the Exxon Valdez disaster.
China holds 8% of Africa’s total debt, but has been FORGIVING INTEREST FREE loans. “China debt trapping” is a classic case of western powers deflecting their own sins onto others.
At the very worst, China operates like a normal private lender (which is obviously better than the strings attached to IMF loans). They just do an incredible amount of lending, because they genuinely want to build up Africa’s economy for strategic reasons
BUT AT WHAT COST?
