No problem! To my knowledge, I don’t think Cockshott was associated with the Cybersyn project, but his name is associated with socialist cybernetics generally. I’d say the difference between them is that Beer’s work is more concerned with broad ideas of system design and how systems work (especially the Viable System Model), while Cockshott’s work is more of a grab bag of ideas to implement in a hypothetical socialist society. I haven’t listened to or read everything of Cockshott though so maybe I’m not giving him a fair shake, but that’s my impression based on what I have seen of his so far.
Oh also, while it’s not as in depth as Beer’s stuff and is a little lib in some parts, The People’s Republic of Walmart is a great book imo as an introduction to socialist economic planning and how it could work with modern tech. I’d definitely recommend it if you’re looking for good intro material about the topic.
Could I ask, how verbose or technical is Beer’s stuff? I am more a natural sciences rather than a math/cs kinda person. Do you think for someone with a passing understanding there would be much to get out of it?
It is technical and uses a lot of unfamiliar terminology, but I would think a background in natural sciences would lend itself well to his work considering it’s based around systems and how they interact, and often uses natural systems as a reference. This is also I think where the name “Brain of the Firm” comes from. From the “viable system model” Wikipedia page:
The model is derived from the architecture of the brain and nervous system. Systems 3-2-1 are identified with the ancient brain or autonomic nervous system. System 4 embodies cognition and conversation. System 5, the higher brain functions, include introspection and decision making.
how does paul cockshotts work figure into this? his name was also associated with cybersyn.
appreciate the resources!
No problem! To my knowledge, I don’t think Cockshott was associated with the Cybersyn project, but his name is associated with socialist cybernetics generally. I’d say the difference between them is that Beer’s work is more concerned with broad ideas of system design and how systems work (especially the Viable System Model), while Cockshott’s work is more of a grab bag of ideas to implement in a hypothetical socialist society. I haven’t listened to or read everything of Cockshott though so maybe I’m not giving him a fair shake, but that’s my impression based on what I have seen of his so far.
Oh also, while it’s not as in depth as Beer’s stuff and is a little lib in some parts, The People’s Republic of Walmart is a great book imo as an introduction to socialist economic planning and how it could work with modern tech. I’d definitely recommend it if you’re looking for good intro material about the topic.
Could I ask, how verbose or technical is Beer’s stuff? I am more a natural sciences rather than a math/cs kinda person. Do you think for someone with a passing understanding there would be much to get out of it?
It is technical and uses a lot of unfamiliar terminology, but I would think a background in natural sciences would lend itself well to his work considering it’s based around systems and how they interact, and often uses natural systems as a reference. This is also I think where the name “Brain of the Firm” comes from. From the “viable system model” Wikipedia page:
You’ve given me some calm, ok, I’ll definitely try to go through at least some of it :3