Broadly, the sacraments are “required” for salvation but in the sense that a) engaging in them sincerely is a pretty good way to ensure salvation and b) Catholicism insists both faith and works are needed for salvation and confession etc are required for that.
You can be saved via private prayer or divine intervention, because stop telling god what to do.
Tradcaths disagree with this because of the doctrine of “no salvation outside the church”. This is due to a very limiting view of what the church is (and of what Jesus is, but that’s another post).
Firstly the above sentence is a tautology, since the church is by definition the community of saints on earth. Secondly it’s the universal church, and calls to all peoples through god’s grace regardless of how much water was sprinkled on their head.
Finally a person who honestly seeks gods truth and salvation and fails to find it has what is called invincible ignorance (a much broader concept than “never saw a bible” and in fact a state some tradcaths are probably in.) and will be saved regardless. And there is always direct personal revelation right up to death, of course.
This is not apologetics and I am not a theologian, just an attempt to explain church doctrine as actually given to people who don’t think the only valid council was Vatican I
There are good reasons they don’t teach it, since it generally quickly leads to universalism without some other theology backing it up, and certain (rather than hopeful) universalism is a heresy.
But most of the time they’re just trying to instill the sad grimdark Irish Catholic thing where you must be sad and guilty all the time because the British spent 200 years preventing you from going to mass.
I also want to add that I have any number of issues with “normal” catholic doctrine. Church is fucked and needs a full clean out and reset. I’m just trying to give the centrist doctrine a fair shake.
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Broadly, the sacraments are “required” for salvation but in the sense that a) engaging in them sincerely is a pretty good way to ensure salvation and b) Catholicism insists both faith and works are needed for salvation and confession etc are required for that.
You can be saved via private prayer or divine intervention, because stop telling god what to do.
Tradcaths disagree with this because of the doctrine of “no salvation outside the church”. This is due to a very limiting view of what the church is (and of what Jesus is, but that’s another post).
Firstly the above sentence is a tautology, since the church is by definition the community of saints on earth. Secondly it’s the universal church, and calls to all peoples through god’s grace regardless of how much water was sprinkled on their head.
Finally a person who honestly seeks gods truth and salvation and fails to find it has what is called invincible ignorance (a much broader concept than “never saw a bible” and in fact a state some tradcaths are probably in.) and will be saved regardless. And there is always direct personal revelation right up to death, of course.
This is not apologetics and I am not a theologian, just an attempt to explain church doctrine as actually given to people who don’t think the only valid council was Vatican I
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Do you know how many years of religious trauma you’ve just undone by teaching my apostate ass about the concept of invincible ignorance?
There are good reasons they don’t teach it, since it generally quickly leads to universalism without some other theology backing it up, and certain (rather than hopeful) universalism is a heresy.
But most of the time they’re just trying to instill the sad grimdark Irish Catholic thing where you must be sad and guilty all the time because the British spent 200 years preventing you from going to mass.
I also want to add that I have any number of issues with “normal” catholic doctrine. Church is fucked and needs a full clean out and reset. I’m just trying to give the centrist doctrine a fair shake.