By God I know westoids are obnoxious with their disingenuous “teaching LGBT rights to the uncivilised savages” bullshit but supporting non-western homophobia is not the answer here.
Oh yeah this is complete bullshit. “Criticizing Qatar for slavery and murdering LGBT people is western imperialism” is intense bad faith bullshit.
You can think LGBT people deserve rights and still disagree with arrogant crackers grandstanding about it. I’ve talked before about the danger of allowing the West to use issues like feminism and LGBT rights as a cover for imperialism for all sorts of reasons, not the least of which is the fact that it allows reactionaries to paint those basic human rights as part and parcel of Western Imperialism.
These crackers don’t give a single fuck about LGBT rights in Qatar, they just want to feel good about themselves regardless of the actual tangible harms their arrogant involvement is doing to the cause of LGBT rights in the Middle East.
Found Paul Cockshot’s hexbear-account.
Qatar has the death penalty for homosexual acts. The last person who was convicted, received a punishment of seven years in jail and seventy lashes with a whip.
We’re not alking about George Bush who claims he wants to bring freedom to Afghani women, we’re talking about a nobody expressing an opinion. This guy isn’t bringing imperialism, he’s simply making a correct statement in one of the most reactionary countries in the world.
I love logging onto hexbear dot net to see leftists debate whether my existence is literally imperialism
I expect that from Qatar with it being an officially Islamic state that specifically draws legislation from religion, but I don’t expect it from an atheist, communist country like China. Anti-LGBT rhetoric is steeped in reactionary thought. The only justification against it is religion and when that doesn’t work, they come up with conspiracy theories like the whole grooming thing or trans panic. I’ve seen more breathless coverage about puberty blockers than fucking safe drinking water, but that’s reaction for you; take an edge case and make it seem like it’s everywhere.
It’s like that clip of that Walsh guy on Rogan getting fact checked. Walsh asserted without evidence that there were “millions” of kids on puberty blockers, but Rogan’s producer fact-checked him and told him it’s less than 5,000 over years. But hey, if we’re doing wall-to-wall coverage of issues that effect 5,000 people, I’ve got some potholes on my work commute that need a fucking act of Congress to be filled, I guess.
millions of kids drinking dirty water
I’ve seen more breathless coverage about puberty blockers than fucking safe drinking water
This is a really great comparison.
Being officially an Islamic state does not mean one has to take this stance. Just a hundred years ago, gay men fled from the UK to Morocco because they could live in peace there. It’s a classic orientalist cliché to paint the middle eastern man as effeminate and suspicious of being queer, one that carries over until the present day when western commenters joke about how soft Saddam Hussein’s handshake was. The ostentatious homophobia we can now sadly see in many societies in the Islamic world is historically a backlash against such racial stereotypes, a compensatory act that cannot be explained without the deep shame about the brutal subjugation of the rich, ancient cultures of the greater middle east at the hands of western colonizers.
To an even greater extend, this goes for transphobia in the global south. It is a result of gender norms violently imposed on indigenous cultures that very frequently, on all continents, recognized more than the western gender binary. Indonesia used to have cultures with 5 different genders, now it is one of the few places worldwide were being trans is illegal.
When we look at who is most ardently supporting and spreading queerphobia in the global south, it is evangelicals and catholics. Colonizer religions that tell the colonized they must hate the gays lest they continue to accept western supremacy.
Queer liberation can and must be a decolonization project.
we’re in this new horrible era of imperialism where the justification for imperialism has become the ghosts and consequences of previous generations of imperialism. every desperate imitation of the west to avoid colonization (genocide, anti-lgbt, poor labor rights, pollution) becomes a new casus belli from the children of the people who showed the global south ‘that’s how you get strong’.
we so desperately need to reclaim the language of liberation from the cynical evil people in power :yes-honey-left:
Qatar when the western value is British finance capitalism :porky-happy:
Qatar when the western value is letting gay people exist :porky-scared-flipped:
That’sgonna be a :yikes: from me dawg
he missed :deeper-sadness:
“LGBT is a western psy op because I saw a NATO official holding a rainbow flag once” is a brain-poisoned take I see increasingly coming out of hegemonic officials in the imperial periphery because it erases the possibility that there was ever a domestic LGBT movement demanding fair treatment. Also how the fuck is Chen Weihua gonna say this shit? By his same logic Marxism in China is a German psy-op because Marx was German. It’s stupid.
It’s also incredibly frustrating because LGBT are still treated like shit in the West. It is far from some hegemonic Western principle. Turn the clock back 50 years and you have nearly LGBT movement in the imperial core getting dismissed as some kind of commie plot imported to drain America of its masculinity and so on. It’s an excuse that can always be used. I was arguing with some Russians (who I ironically agreed with on their Ukraine takes) who were insisting that all LGBT movements in their domestic sphere are Western NGOs and what have you. I said “Why ban LGBT demonstrations and not just blanket ban Western NGOs if that’s what you’re worried about?” And then they used this tortured logic where “actually we’re super nice to gays over here
as long as they keep it in the bedroomit’s just that LGBT is a western acronym and that’s how you know it’s a Western imported movement meant to destabilize us.”if :inshallah-script: USA/NATO/EU collapsed and was scattered to the four winds these motherfuckers would still blame LGBT as being a western psy op the same way American officials pretend every communist is some kind of fly that burst forth from the corpse of the USSR.
This is pretty par the course for leftists in the current or former global south. I hear this all the time from former left-wing guerrilla fighters. They call lgbt people an abomination that NATO uses to removed their culture. The more educated regions tend to be better about it. You’ll find the same thing in poorer regions of the US.
You’ll find the same thing in poorer regions of the US.
This is correct, but I also believe you see this in more middle class areas as well. This sort of thing is almost impossible to prove, but I think a lot of middle class suburbanites do sort of carry a lot of homophobic attitudes but they just keep it to themselves. Because over the last decade it’s become socially unacceptable in a lot of the social sphere to be outwardly homophobic. Personally I think a lot of Americans are just bottling up their homophobia and god help us if fascism takes hold, because all that bottled up homophobia will definitely break out.
It wasn’t that long ago (like mid-2000s) that polls showed a majority of Americans felt homosexuality was immoral. In the 15-20 years since, I highly doubt that hardly anyone say age 35+ at the time who was already homophobic has changed much, they’ve just been keeping their mouths shut.
I grew up in the 1980s and 1990s and i had a ton of homophobic and transphobic brainworms i had to work through in spite of being bi and trans myself. Are there people who just don’t say anything out loud anymore because they don’t want to be shamed for it? Yeah, absolutely. Lots of cishet people aren’t fully honest with me and just play nice because they don’t want to cause a scene. But there’s also lots and lots of people who have genuinely become better, more accepting people and that’s honestly not all that surprising. All queerphobias are learned responses. There’s nothing genuine about them. People have been trained to reflexively feel the hate and disgust because that was the socially expected thing to do. If they fully realize that, it’s easy to discard these fears once they lose their purpose of being a mandatory part of somebody’s gender performance. Without that, there is simply no reason to be queerphobic anymore.
Speaking from experience. I realized I was gay in high school in China and nobody around me from my teachers and classmates to my parents and extended family gave me any trouble — except the grand narrative on everyone’s mind was that, because I am gay, my future lay completely with the west, mostly cuz of this “western value” idea Chen seems to subscribe to. It was a big factor why I so eagerly moved the US and became an absolutely cringe Eurocentric lib till recently.
There’s perhaps something to be said about how queer people in non-western worlds might be assumed/pushed to identify with the western capitalist world that has middle-class-washed and hijacked the lgbt liberation movements. But this line of thought is always too close to home for me to rationally think about
On one hand i can give some slack to these former feudal countries and colonies being backwards in regards to LGBT. Theyre not going to get everything right. But on the other hand ffs why cant people just be cool about gay people.
Ngl I don’t. It’s not like the colonizers we’re promoting LGBT dominance. Anticolonial movements should be inherently pro-LGBT rights, are you against oppression or are you not?
Homophobes get the wall. Period.
