Is anyone actually surprised by this?
it is open-source, if they did something like this, we would know it for sure
This article is what US propaganda looks like folks. Mashable should be ashamed.
Literally all AI companies do this to run their services. Except you can actually download Deepseek and run it completely securely on your own devices. You know who doesn’t allow that security? OpenAI and the other US companies currently being screwed.
as opposed to OpenAI which also stores keystrokes and then sells them to anyone who’d pay?
They should store the data in US servers like OpenAI does. Apparently then Mashable won’t write an article about it.
The criticism thrown at DeepSeek in the past days is just as applicable to American AI models. But when that was brought up it in the past it was “making things political”.
At least I can run DeepSeek locally.
the company states that it may share user information to "comply with applicable law, legal process, or government requests.
Literally every company’s privacy policy here in the US basically just says that too.
Not only does DeepSeek collect “text or audio input, prompt, uploaded files, feedback, chat history, or other content that [the user] provide[s] to our model and Services,” but it also collects information from your device, including “device model, operating system, keystroke patterns or rhythms, IP address, and system language.”
Breaking news, company with chatbot you send messages to uses and stores the messages you send, and also does what practically every other app does for demographic statistics gathering and optimizations.
Companies with AI models like Google, Meta, and OpenAI collect similar troves of information, but their privacy policies do not mention collecting keystrokes. There’s also the added issue that DeepSeek sends your user data straight to Chinese servers.
They didn’t use the word keystrokes, therefore they don’t collect them? Of course they collect keystrokes, how else would you type anything into these apps?
In DeepSeek’s privacy policy, there’s no mention of the security of its servers. There’s nothing about whether data is encrypted, either stored or in transmission, and zero information about safeguards to prevent unauthorized access.
This is the only thing that seems disturbing to me, compared to what we’d like to expect based on the context of what DeepSeek is. Of course, this was proven recently in practice to be terrible policy, so I assume they might shore up their defenses a bit.
All the articles that talk about this as if it’s some big revelation just boil down to “company does exactly what every other big tech company does in America, except in China”
Did the American technology giants think they had the monopoly on capturing human input too?
My gym sock captures human input too.
That’s human output surely?
I input it into the sock.
Oh my, just wait until you learn what Facebook and Google do…
Just host it yourself?
No, this is just propaganda
Like every app you have doesn’t collect keystrokes data?
This make the news only because it’s going to chinese servers. Didn’t see anything like that about ChatGPT or the one made by Google.
“We store the information we collect in secure servers located in the People’s Republic of China”
Now you Americans know how we Europeans feel when Google, Amazon and Facebook store our information on American servers. Hint: The protective wall between Chinese servers and their government are about as good as the one between American servers and their government - at least for non-US citizens. The last thin veil of privacy for Eurpeans has been ripped to shreds by Trump last week.
The last thin veil of privacy for Eurpeans has been ripped to shreds by Trump last week.
What did he do? I know Trump does not like the GDPR, but did he sign something affecting it last week?
He killed the EU-US Data Privacy Framework. Theoretically, no company is allowed to transfer data of European citizens to US-based servers anymore. Sadly, Ursula von der Leyen is lacking the balls to act on this.
Thanks, I did not know. I think you are referring to this: https://www.freevacy.com/news/noyb/trumps-actions-to-dismantle-pclob-threatens-eu-us-data-transfers/6088
To be completely honest… as an European I would be happy if they actually did make it so that no EU-US data transfer were allowed… we need to stop depending on all these US-based services… but like you said, they probably don’t have the balls to pull the plug. Which makes me wonder if that board was actually really any protection at all for privacy or it had always been an empty shell used as an excuse on both sides just to keep up appearances and maintain the plug on.
I honestly think this could be a win for us. Worst case scenario, nothing really changes but some masks fall off and at least some people would stop acting under false pretense (which could open the doors for change). So I’m actually glad he did that.
I’m confused. Isn’t “collecting keystroke data” just an alarmist way to describe text entry?
This is the full paragraph:
We collect certain device and network connection information when you access the Service. This information includes your device model, operating system, keystroke patterns or rhythms, IP address, and system language. We also collect service-related, diagnostic, and performance information, including crash reports and performance logs. We automatically assign you a device ID and user ID. Where you log-in from multiple devices, we use information such as your device ID and user ID to identify your activity across devices to give you a seamless log-in experience and for security purposes.
It looks to me that they are using it to identify the user uniquely, maybe also related to captcha to prevent bots (it’s common practice to capture mouse and keyboard while resolving captchas to see if the movement is human-like).
Looks like there are more things I need to start randomizing and injecting with noise.
Maybe. They could also be doing things like paying attention to input cadence and typos/pre-send typo corrections to use as part of a fingerprint associated with the identifying information a user gives them when creating an account so that they can then attempt to detect the user elsewhere on the web whether they are using an identifying account or not.
This argument applies to literally every single web app you use.
So, basically using Facebook technology in their AI app?
You’ll hear no arguments from me on that point, US tech companies are toxic af.
How far we’ve come
this. i mean, the session logs for the prompt are kept at least for your user, right?
Not exactly. Timing between key presses can be used to identify people.
lol no. only the sounds of the keys can identify the keyboard’s model
The goal is not to identify keyboard model. The goal is to identify person. And people tend to have something called habbits.
the chance of this is almost zero. if you are a dangerous cybercriminal, they will track your device down by a networking solution, wait until you leave it unattended and install a hardware-based spy device and capture evidence. No fbi agent will fuck around with keyboard sounds or movie bs like that
with keyboard sounds
Ok, I see you are intentionally going in circles.
I am literally so paranoid I regularly vary my keysteoke rhythms and explore polyrhytmic techniques to create variations. Not even joking.
Yes.
Not usually. Keystroke info is different than text input, like if you didn’t click onto any field and typed it would only be captured if keystroke are all being grabbed. It’s especially scary if you keep the app running in the bg and then type something and it still captures it. Not saying they’re doing that, but the privacy policy says they might.
The rhythm part is annoying, it’s commonly used to ID people even through things like ad blocks and dns blocks. Could also (in theory) be used to capture what people are typing just by hearing how they type.
DeepSeek does the same things that OpenAI does, but it’s a foreign actor so OOooooOOWwwwooOOOO sCaRrRey!
Wait until they hear what data Instagram/Meta collects during use!
But they’re a US company so it’s ok.
Realistically what is the worst thing China is doing with your private data? Selling it? If you’re not a Chinese National, at least you don’t fall under their jurisdiction.
If you’re a U.S. citizen, with all the tech oligarchs cozying up to the current administration, I’d be a lot more concerned with Facebook/Twitter/Etc collecting your data.
The CCP is significantly more oppressive, gives zero shits about human rights or trademarks or really anyone at all. The US at least pretends to care.
The US is in the process of deporting all its migrants and threatening invasions on half the world.
I get that gringos don’t want to own up to their complicity by inaction but you oughta stop pontificating about how other governments are worse. Unless they’re called Israel, they weren’t before and they sure as fuck aren’t now.
Get fucked, racist.
Lmaooo hurting gringos feelings is being racist? Y’all have had concentration camps for longer than you’ve been without them, you know their fucking addresses and they’re still there.
Do forgive me for throwing y’all’s opinions on racism in the dustbin.
You cannot be a serious leftist and pretend to be offended by a little “anti-white” rhetoric.
Bro you can stop that narrative. The truth is out now.
The truth is out now.
What truth? Who talks like this and thinks it means something?
For the past week the people of China and the United States, as well as other countries have been comparing notes. Debunking propaganda on both sides. Realizing that much of what we’ve all been told for years/decades, has been lies.
I’m ootl. What debunks have come out?
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I’m not here to defend the Chinese government or anything, but there is an argument to be made that the US has an equivalency to each one of these things.
CCP officials at tech companies - NSA backdoors
Uyghur slaves - Prison labor aka war on drugs
Taiwan - Gaza/Literally any “3rd world” nation with oil
Censorship - Right wing media empires/red state bills targeted to downplay US atrocities taught in schools
Retaliation against protestors - Police brutality Social media censorship - Oligarchs owned social media
I think a lot of people are less falling for Chinese propaganda and more overcoming US propaganda.
With the caveat that we have tons of actual evidence for the US equivalent, whereas the claims that China does those things are usually “We absolutely swear they do bro” from the people who swore Hamas was raping babies or whatever.
If you think any of those are remotely the same, you’re simply delusional.
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You make a compelling argument.
’d love to be wrong.
No you wouldn’t. If you were, you’d have listen to the many people that probably have corrected you on all those State Department talking points
That’s never happened. And being that you haven’t either, I think it’s a fair guess that it won’t anytime soon.
EDIT: I just realized feddit blocks both Lemmygrad and Hexbear, so this user cannot see my comment. If anyone wants to use/copy my comment or link directly to it, feel free to do so, I believe I provided enough evidence to debunk most of this user’s sourceless claims. It’s a shame some instances just block us and shows who they truly are.
E: any of you downvoters, feel free to correct me, I’d love to be wrong.
You throw a bunch of claims with zero source and wants to be taken seriously. At least give us the bare minimum before just spewing this much US State Department propaganda.
That being said, I will address some of your points, since someone else might stumble upon this and need an actual answer.
They don’t have CCP officials required by law to work at tech companies and disclose any and all data they acquire?
Keeping a close look on the companies on their country and keeping them on a short leash is good actually. China is not a capitalist hellhole like the US or most of the world, it is a socialist state where the rich does not control the government. Keeping them in check is the right thing to do given their current development level of socialism.
They’re not using Uyghur slaves in their factories?
That’s a new one, so far I have only heard about how they are being genocided. Which you can debunk with a little bit of research: Arab League’s visit to Xinjiang rejects Western accusations of ethnic genocide, religious persecution.
They’re not trying to literally erase Taiwan off the maps?
LMAO, no. Taiwan is part of China, why would China want to erase part of itself off the map? Even the US agrees. The only thing China wants is proper reunification with Taiwan.
They’re not still censoring information about their horrific pasts?
What “horrific past”? Be specific, this vague stance achieves nothing. If you’re talking about Tiananmen Square, here’s a good video about that: The Tiananmen Square “Massacre” Never Happened.
They’re not targeting, retaliating against and kidnapping protestors domestic and abroad?
Again, provide a damn source, I have no idea of what you’re talking about and it is something I never saw anyone claim before.
What I can do tho is bring into attention the names of a few people like Huey P. Newton being killed by the US government and Snowden having to seek asylum abroad after blowing the whistle on the US surveillance state for the world to see. And if that’s not enough, how about Pro-Palestinian protesters clash with US police on second night of DNC and New Report Details How Pro-Palestinian Protests Are Suppressed in Democratic Countries.
They’re not censoring virtually every US social website entirely from the entire country?
No they are not, Microsoft operates in China. Not only that, but they do not explicitly want to simply ban US sites on there, it’s a simple matter of national sovereignty where companies like Facebook and Google refuse to abide by Chinese law, so China simply developed all their tools in-house. Not only that, but Chinese citizens have access to VPNs and can easily access websites abroad that are not usually allowed in China.
Meanwhile the US banned Huawei and tried to ban TikTok when it became apparent they could not control it and that the people were seeing the US for what it truly is, a genocidal state funding Israel in it’s attempt to genocide the Palestinian people.
The last link I posted is a proxy on 12ft.io since The Intercept won’t allow to see the page without registering.
Based on what? The US imprisons more people, kills more people, tortures more people. The only way to argue that China is more oppressive is basically to start with the assumption they are and then work backwards to justify it.
I listed a handful of reasons above, of which no one has denied or refuted. Just downvoted.
Actually you didn’t. You listed a bunch of accusations against China (which were refuted, you just ignored that), but you didn’t even try to explain how that’s more oppressive than the USA. Even if all your accusations were true, the US is still more oppressive.
I see you are sticking with the pack here and going with generic denial and ignoring my arguments rather than actually refuting them.
now we’ve got another refutopolis warrior.
What does that even mean?
that’s pure ideology.
That doesn’t affect people not in china or not bordering china.
Realistically what is the worst thing China is doing with your private data?
Probably mapping out the extended support networks of democratic activists in Taiwan to prepare to throw them in jail after a forcible military takeover.
So democratic activists in Taiwan have extensive networks in the US?
I mean, you said it.
Extensive networks with their close ally? My pearls must be clutched!!
Networks with a foreign actor undermining national sovereignty, which financed several massacres in your country
My country? Not sure what you’re talking about but I know that Taiwan deserves sovereignty. You don’t? Surely you’re not pro imperialism…
Strawmanning the open source federated social media enthusiast crowd as unaware fans of meta?
As a US citizen, I prefer services that US consumer protections could apply to. (While we still have them, ahem.) I know that Chinese laws will not protect me from things a Chinese business does in China.
As a chauvinist
Ftfy
This makes me sad, that we can’t engage in civil discussion about this. Why did you assume and not ask questions? Be curious, not judgmental.
To me it’s a question of laws. The laws of the U.S. at least somewhat constrain the people of my own country, and can prevent them from working against their own citizens. Like me.
Please be kind when replying.
Fuck civility, its a tool of oppression
That sinophobia isn’t going to stoke itself!
Pathetic
Western authorities have been harvesting data for a few decades from social media so any complaint that singles out Chinese apps doing the same is obviously rooted in sinophobia.
The fact you think my joking about racists doing that is pathetic shows which side of that assertion you fall.
My content on here speaks for it self… Dear
rAyCIsM 🤡
The response the deepseek has been so transparent and cliched .
I thought more of Mashable. , but I suppose it’s good when they show you who they really are
I’m not American so they are indeed a foreign actor.
Nope you can’t run chatgpt locally.
but it’s a foreign actor so OOooooOOWwwwooOOOO sCaRrRey!
I love that people think this is a solid own. Lest we forget Hong Kong, or an impending hot war in Taiwan or building out extradition systems with an expanding network of countries to forcibly repatriate and torture dissidents and human rights lawyers.
You used to not have to explain why authoritarianism was bad.
Edit: I would love to know the Pro side of what happened in Hong Kong, or the forced extradition regime, since evidently I’m clearly in the wrong in thinking those were bad. What am I missing?
It used to not be necessary because democracies used to have moral authority but since the revelations of Manning and Snowden non-Americans see no difference between giving our data to the USA or to China or any other. We also know from the reaction to the war in Ukraine and Gaza that human rights claims are only sometimes used.
or an impending hot war in Taiwan
When you can’t even find things that China actually has done to complain about, so you have to start complaining about things they haven’t done.
Anti terrorism is good, actually. I don’t support people kicking seniors for speaking mandarin to try to bully a government into not prosecuting murderers in the mainland, which was the reason the protests happened (that and Washington money)
