Scots - I like fannybaws.

(Vagina testicles)

That’s not fair, it’s also an excuse for violence.

Actually it’s the most effective way.

I read a great biography of William Lloyd Garrison (the American abolitionist) a couple of years ago and it made it clear how he, and other radicals, dramatically changed the course of history through their constant focus and activism on how slavery was wrong. Their radicalism shifted the middle. That’s what “extreme” views do, they make it easier for people in the middle to move towards embracing justice.

We (most of us) don’t remember all the people who said “Yeah, slavery is wrong but we have to be practical,” or “I would like to end slavery but we have to compensate owners,” or “But what will we do with all the black people?” These were real positions within the anti-slavery movement. When Garrison began his career, they were the dominant positions and he spent much of his career being vilified by gradualists who thought he was too extreme.

They wanted to end slavery “someday.” And they didn’t want those who claimed to own other humans to be too uncomfortable. We don’t remember gradualists today. We remember the men and women with the courage and ethical wisdom to look at slavery and say “This is wrong. It needs to stop.” And their “extremism” is part of why it did stop, because the moral pressure they exerted made the South conclude it was inevitable that slavery would end unless they broke free of the Union.

I think we have to be careful in drawing parallels between veganism and past social justice movements, but there is a valuable lesson for us here. We can serve animals by not being in the middle because by being extreme, we can change what the middle even is. Today it is becoming mainstream to critique things like gestation crates or foie gras. We did that. We changed the middle. (This “we,” obviously, is broad).

&

• Baby-steps are shown to undermine support for more effective measures

Most western cultures think that they’ve experienced moral progress over time. These aren’t mere intuitions, however, as these observations often admit of some deep analysis. For example, some argue that our modern liberal intuitions (e.g. everyone is born free, etc.) are grounded in the philosophy of Thomas Hobbes. Hobbes was responding to earlier moral philosophy and was responded to himself in turn. Kant distilled these intuitions into a rigorous metaphysics of moral philosophy, which was still used quite actively well into the 70s.

Now, philosophers don’t think that ‘views have changed, therefore there is no truth.’ Instead, they realize that good analysis of these earlier arguments reveals that they’re close to right but skate around some important moral issues that can be unpacked with analysis. There’s truth that can be found. It appears to all the relevant experts that moral thought is developing in a way that’s strongly analogous to mathematical or natural scientific thought.

These are some of the reasons that subjectivism and relativism are extremely unpopular among experts.

Although we can observe and say that although there are people who have different moral systems than us, such as psychopaths and Spartans; we can actually scientifically evaluate the merits of the competing moral systems and their objective performance in the long run and historically. Historically, evolution has shown that altruistic humans are indeed “fitter” and objectively, game theory has shown that cooperative strategies are objectively better than selfish strategies in the long run.

You don’t need examples or have to worry about cherry-picking. They’re not ours to use. You can’t humanely take a life of something that doesn’t want to die.

Consider that neither the wish to be free from suffering nor the wish to continue existing is unique to our species; these interests are shared by all sentient animals, and indeed can be seen as fundamental biological drives. And if my interest in not being harmed or killed makes it wrong to harm or kill me when harming or killing me can be avoided, then an animal’s interest in not being harmed or killed makes it likewise wrong for us to harm or kill animals when doing so can be avoided.

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Less Palestinians are dying, less bombs are being dropped, people are returning to Northern Gaza

What planet are you on, have you read the OP?

The well being of the Palestinians hinged on the unhingedness of bad orange man.

Yes an actual leftist not a useful idiot for conservatives. Soak it in.

It’s not relevant, explain simply why any of what you posted means letting Trump get in was the better choice.

Brother I am not reading that it is not relevant to my point, and I’m not a liberal. Anarchist and not American.

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Would have happened either way no matter who was in charge. US was always going to back Israel at first. If Trump had won they’d already have hotels up and the mass graves would be pushing up daisies.

No, the Zionist propaganda that convinced you both sides are the same.

All those things are horrific, but there’s always something worse.

Fuck Israel and fuck you for helping them advance their goals. Trump has done in 2 weeks what generations of war-mongering neo-libs and conservatives couldn’t. GG

and now Trump has announced the largest land seizure since 1948, GG

• Biden: Imposed sanctions on violent West Bank settlers.

  • Trump: Lifted these sanctions, signaling support for settler activities.

• Biden: Facilitated humanitarian aid to Gaza.

  • Trump: Proposed ethnically clensing Palestinians from Gaza.

• Biden: Advocated for ceasefires to de-escalate tensions.

  • Trump: Suggested U.S. control over Gaza, envisioning redevelopment without Palestinian residents.

• Biden: Withheld specific military aid to prevent civilian harm.

  • Trump: Authorized a $1 billion arms sale to Israel, including heavy munitions.

No, when I said Trump will come in and reverse any sanctions or limits Biden had put, ramp up the genocide in the west bank and let his dumbass son-in-law build hotels in Gaza. And that situation was worth avoiding. Adelson gave $100M to trump PUBLICLY for the west bank, maybe you should advise her as it would’ve been the exact same under Kamala, right? Could’ve saved her a lot of cash.

Still coping I see.

Most of the people roasting you here aren’t liberals. They’re anarchists, socialists, actual leftists that have always condemned the harm the US is causing. Just not dumbasses.

You sound just as dumb as the MAGAts calling people woke.

Good. Ceasefire was just a cover to ramp up the cleansing in the West Bank though. He’s worse on all fronts.

We weren’t, we were saying this exact thing would happen and should be avoided. Because he told us.

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