Because the gender war is a symptom of poor vs rich + government and is the entire topic of this thread.
I agree we are all getting fucked by the system. The results of that in my life are different than how it affects your life. The system screws men in a different way than it screws women. It screws black people different than white people. It screws this religion different than that religion.
Exactly the point. Continuing that line of thought. Do you think, a solution for one group is just going to magically work for another?
It just sounds selfish to me when you acknowledge that the problem is bigger than “Men’s issues”. And although it’s not quite as bad, it reminds me of All Lives Matter.
How is this at all related?
Cancer has MANY symptoms. When someone is complaining about how they lost both their legs to cancer, and you’re like “But MY cancer occasionally makes me feel dizzy”, yeah, it sucks that you have cancer, and I wish you didn’t, but trying to equate your dizziness with amputation just makes you sound ignorant and desperate for attention.
By all means, let’s cure the cancer for everyone, but until we can do that, we should triage, and treat the most severe symptoms before we start worrying about the occasional dizziness.
Again you’re misinterpreting, using your cancer analogy, this is like :
P1 : “I have cancer and made huge strides to beat it, I know you have cancer too, use this and this and do this and this and take theses supplements & drugs, eat this diet, smile more, do this exercise, blah blah blah”
P2 : “We don’t even have the same type of cancer, you have Rhabdomyoma, I have Leukemia, what you’re suggesting doesn’t work or isn’t nearly as effective, cancer is way more complex than that.”
P1 : “Fuck you then.”
Again, Please consider watching : Pt.1 &
Pt.2 if you want a deeper understanding of my perspective.
I’m dyslexic and have reading OCD, it takes me longer to write and development my argument.
I read your comment the first time, and as per my OCD, I’ll be reading it again.
Without going through your experiences, I can’t fully understand how you have personally been punished for being a man.
My personal experiences have shown me that no matter how bad I’ve had it, every situation in my life would have been worse if I were a woman, gay, or had a darker complexion.
Without going through your experiences, I can’t fully understand how you have personally been punished for being a man.
You want to know my personal experience?
There’s so so much I could say. But I’m not comfortable with publicly trauma dumbing.
Without giving away too much, I will say that an event accord when I mearly 6, when I told, I was meet with scoffs of disgust, and called a lier, and the events continued for some time, years later, after I had already repressed it deep down and everyone forgot. My little sister comes out about a similar event that happened to her, and she was meet “omg!! That’s horrible!! We need to take immediate action, you should’ve come to us about this sooner”, note that we came out to the same people. More over, it likely wasn’t even the first time it happened, it’s just as far back as I can remember. That’s all I’ll disclose, if I think about it to much I’ll trigger an episode.
Child abuse is a serious issue and you are right to be upset about how the people, who were supposed to stand up for you, completely betrayed you. I understand that to you, this is the most important injustice that has ever occurred. (For lack of a better phrasing) You’ve earned that perspective, and I will not tell you it’s wrong.
The solution is advocating for victims of abuse, not reminding people that sometimes bad things happen to men.
not reminding people that sometimes bad things happen to men.
That’s not even what I’m trying to do, I’m just trying to make the point that it’s NOT THAT SIMPLE , it wasn’t simple for women, so why the fuck do people assume it’s simple for men. It’s not, it never will be, not for anyone who’s not in a position of power or wealth. Ready or not, it doesn’t matter. It took decades for women to build a movement capable of changing the system for them, it’s no different for men, men’s rights advocates have been fighting for men’s mental health for a very long time already and we still see no chance in the system.
You’ll hear a lot about “men made the system for men”, and that’s objectively and observably false, the Rich made the system for the Rich. Just because the 1% are men, doesn’t mean that 70% of homeless individuals aren’t also men. The Rich don’t care who gets fucked, as long as it’s not them.
I’d like to suggest once again, if you haven’t already Pt.1 & Pt.2.
I don’t think anyone is claiming that anything is simple.
These are global issues, and I think that by putting the focus on how they affect men, it really feels like YOU are simplifying it and discounting what non-men have gone through.
That may not be your intent, but that’s how it sounds and why you are getting push back.
Everybody knows that everybody has problems.
I understand what you are saying and why. I’m not saying you are wrong. I’m explaining why you aren’t getting support from others.
May I remind you, I’m not the one who brought up men’s issues in the first place.
If Apytele left out :
Men are welcome to do the same whenever they’re ready, but for now a lot of men are just coping by crab bucketing this shit and bringing women back down.
We wouldn’t be having this conversation at all.
I have no issue with the rest of the comment.
That particular part is clearly not in support of men, it’s not positive at all, putting the blame square on men’s shoulders and oversimplifying the problem. If she wanted to promote Women’s rights, that fine. If she intended to encourage men to join and fight for themselves this is not the way. That particular part is clearly made to create division, not unity.
I understand what you are saying and why. I’m not saying you are wrong. I’m explaining why you aren’t getting support from others.
I don’t care if I have support from others or not. I’m already used to never having my voice heard or being rejected, it makes no difference.
I think that @Rhynoplaz said it very well. I’m very sorry for what you went through and the betrayal by those who are supposed to protect you. I hope that you are able to continue healing.
As a fellow survivor of early childhood trauma, one of the ways that I deal with it is service to others. That is to say, taking what I’ve learned in my experiences in coping over the years and using them to help people who are going through similar experiences or experience marginalization either by advocating for them, lending an empathetic ear, or sharing what I’ve been through and have learned. I wasn’t even aware until well into adulthood that my traumas (some that I don’t remember due to young age) had had such a profound impact on my life. Choosing to leverage the painful traumas to constructive purposes that make other people happy gives me a sense of fulfillment and taking control over things that were very much out of my control as a young child.
Now, I’m not saying that this is the way for everyone or that your anger is wrong. It isn’t and your anger is a healthy emotional response to your experience. Also, just as an emotion, it’s absolutely ok and healthy to experience. There are no “bad” emotions, emotions are just part of our selves as humans and embracing them is embracing ourselves (I’m, admittedly still working on that). I might say that the direction that you are pointing your anger may be misplaced and that you may be perceiving an attack or slight where none appears to have been intended. But, again, please don’t take that as me trying to invalidate how you feel as that is not at all my intention.
If you want to chat or would like some help in finding someone who is a professional to help you heal, please don’t hesitate to reach out.
Thank you for sharing. I’m trying to be very careful in how I word all of this, because I’ve never been through what the two of you have, and I know I can never truly understand, but I am sympathetic to the severity of it.
Absolutely! I think that the sympathy and care that you expressed are very helpful and really want to commend you on reaching out with a supportive hand rather than matched aggression. I find that a lot of people who respond with displays of aggression are doing so because of their own internalized wounds forcing their way our in anger, rather than intentional malice (some people are just assholes, to be fair).
Keep rocking, you beautiful human being.
ETA: Other comment was deleted because I mistook who I was replying to because ADHD.
Because the gender war is a symptom of poor vs rich + government and is the entire topic of this thread.
Exactly the point. Continuing that line of thought. Do you think, a solution for one group is just going to magically work for another?
How is this at all related?
Again you’re misinterpreting, using your cancer analogy, this is like :
P1 : “I have cancer and made huge strides to beat it, I know you have cancer too, use this and this and do this and this and take theses supplements & drugs, eat this diet, smile more, do this exercise, blah blah blah”
P2 : “We don’t even have the same type of cancer, you have Rhabdomyoma, I have Leukemia, what you’re suggesting doesn’t work or isn’t nearly as effective, cancer is way more complex than that.”
P1 : “Fuck you then.”
Again, Please consider watching :
Pt.1 & Pt.2 if you want a deeper understanding of my perspective.
If you’re not going to read and respond to mine, I’m not going to bother watching yours.
Best wishes to you.
EDIT: Originally the only comment above was reposting the links to the videos. They added a comment after I complained about the lack of one.
I’m dyslexic and have reading OCD, it takes me longer to write and development my argument.
I read your comment the first time, and as per my OCD, I’ll be reading it again.
I did read. Read again.
I went back and saw your edit.
Without going through your experiences, I can’t fully understand how you have personally been punished for being a man.
My personal experiences have shown me that no matter how bad I’ve had it, every situation in my life would have been worse if I were a woman, gay, or had a darker complexion.
I hope that it gets better for you.
You want to know my personal experience?
There’s so so much I could say. But I’m not comfortable with publicly trauma dumbing.
Without giving away too much, I will say that an event accord when I mearly 6, when I told, I was meet with scoffs of disgust, and called a lier, and the events continued for some time, years later, after I had already repressed it deep down and everyone forgot. My little sister comes out about a similar event that happened to her, and she was meet “omg!! That’s horrible!! We need to take immediate action, you should’ve come to us about this sooner”, note that we came out to the same people. More over, it likely wasn’t even the first time it happened, it’s just as far back as I can remember. That’s all I’ll disclose, if I think about it to much I’ll trigger an episode.
I truly am sorry that happened to you.
Child abuse is a serious issue and you are right to be upset about how the people, who were supposed to stand up for you, completely betrayed you. I understand that to you, this is the most important injustice that has ever occurred. (For lack of a better phrasing) You’ve earned that perspective, and I will not tell you it’s wrong.
The solution is advocating for victims of abuse, not reminding people that sometimes bad things happen to men.
That’s not even what I’m trying to do, I’m just trying to make the point that it’s NOT THAT SIMPLE , it wasn’t simple for women, so why the fuck do people assume it’s simple for men. It’s not, it never will be, not for anyone who’s not in a position of power or wealth. Ready or not, it doesn’t matter. It took decades for women to build a movement capable of changing the system for them, it’s no different for men, men’s rights advocates have been fighting for men’s mental health for a very long time already and we still see no chance in the system.
You’ll hear a lot about “men made the system for men”, and that’s objectively and observably false, the Rich made the system for the Rich. Just because the 1% are men, doesn’t mean that 70% of homeless individuals aren’t also men. The Rich don’t care who gets fucked, as long as it’s not them.
I’d like to suggest once again, if you haven’t already Pt.1 & Pt.2.
I don’t think anyone is claiming that anything is simple.
These are global issues, and I think that by putting the focus on how they affect men, it really feels like YOU are simplifying it and discounting what non-men have gone through.
That may not be your intent, but that’s how it sounds and why you are getting push back.
Everybody knows that everybody has problems.
I understand what you are saying and why. I’m not saying you are wrong. I’m explaining why you aren’t getting support from others.
May I remind you, I’m not the one who brought up men’s issues in the first place. If Apytele left out :
We wouldn’t be having this conversation at all.
I have no issue with the rest of the comment. That particular part is clearly not in support of men, it’s not positive at all, putting the blame square on men’s shoulders and oversimplifying the problem. If she wanted to promote Women’s rights, that fine. If she intended to encourage men to join and fight for themselves this is not the way. That particular part is clearly made to create division, not unity.
I don’t care if I have support from others or not. I’m already used to never having my voice heard or being rejected, it makes no difference.
I think that @Rhynoplaz said it very well. I’m very sorry for what you went through and the betrayal by those who are supposed to protect you. I hope that you are able to continue healing.
As a fellow survivor of early childhood trauma, one of the ways that I deal with it is service to others. That is to say, taking what I’ve learned in my experiences in coping over the years and using them to help people who are going through similar experiences or experience marginalization either by advocating for them, lending an empathetic ear, or sharing what I’ve been through and have learned. I wasn’t even aware until well into adulthood that my traumas (some that I don’t remember due to young age) had had such a profound impact on my life. Choosing to leverage the painful traumas to constructive purposes that make other people happy gives me a sense of fulfillment and taking control over things that were very much out of my control as a young child.
Now, I’m not saying that this is the way for everyone or that your anger is wrong. It isn’t and your anger is a healthy emotional response to your experience. Also, just as an emotion, it’s absolutely ok and healthy to experience. There are no “bad” emotions, emotions are just part of our selves as humans and embracing them is embracing ourselves (I’m, admittedly still working on that). I might say that the direction that you are pointing your anger may be misplaced and that you may be perceiving an attack or slight where none appears to have been intended. But, again, please don’t take that as me trying to invalidate how you feel as that is not at all my intention.
If you want to chat or would like some help in finding someone who is a professional to help you heal, please don’t hesitate to reach out.
Thank you for sharing. I’m trying to be very careful in how I word all of this, because I’ve never been through what the two of you have, and I know I can never truly understand, but I am sympathetic to the severity of it.
Absolutely! I think that the sympathy and care that you expressed are very helpful and really want to commend you on reaching out with a supportive hand rather than matched aggression. I find that a lot of people who respond with displays of aggression are doing so because of their own internalized wounds forcing their way our in anger, rather than intentional malice (some people are just assholes, to be fair).
Keep rocking, you beautiful human being.
ETA: Other comment was deleted because I mistook who I was replying to because ADHD.
Misread the commentor initially. Absolutely. Sympathy and empathy is how we build a better world.