I come to these discussions in good faith, because I want to believe that some people are not here to spew propaganda and maybe are just bad with statistics…
Obviously if you do legitimately wish to have discussions in good faith, it would be a good idea not to immediately accuse people of being propagandized.
In per capita terms, China still produces far less CO2 than other developed nations despite also manufacturing a large amount of the goods those developed nations use.
What is an acceptable death toll for you? Because China seems to have a very high tolerance. Does the end goal justify the means?
For one, I think your death toll for the construction of the three gorges dam is probably out by a couple of magnitudes. Does the end goal justify the means? Almost certainly. China has just compressed an entire 200 years of bloody industrialization (which it has been for every country) into 20 years. There are no countries on Earth that industrialized without vast quantities of blood spilled.
You can’t get away with this high percentage of death in democratic countries from your examples, where the electorate has more power to say “no thanks”.
Do you really think people in western countries often vote for national governments one way or another because of their opinions on workplace health and safety? There aren’t many countries where the electorate of a workplace can democratically vote to change their boss if they think it’s too dangerous. Again, if you want to have legit good faith discussions, it’s not a good idea to suggest that China isn’t democratic simply because it doesn’t conform to a particular template of democracy that you subscribe to. Many people would say that China is in fact more democratic than the west.
Obviously if you do legitimately wish to have discussions in good faith, it would be a good idea not to immediately accuse people of being propagandized. In per capita terms, China still produces far less CO2 than other developed nations despite also manufacturing a large amount of the goods those developed nations use.
For one, I think your death toll for the construction of the three gorges dam is probably out by a couple of magnitudes. Does the end goal justify the means? Almost certainly. China has just compressed an entire 200 years of bloody industrialization (which it has been for every country) into 20 years. There are no countries on Earth that industrialized without vast quantities of blood spilled.
Do you really think people in western countries often vote for national governments one way or another because of their opinions on workplace health and safety? There aren’t many countries where the electorate of a workplace can democratically vote to change their boss if they think it’s too dangerous. Again, if you want to have legit good faith discussions, it’s not a good idea to suggest that China isn’t democratic simply because it doesn’t conform to a particular template of democracy that you subscribe to. Many people would say that China is in fact more democratic than the west.