The EU is not saying “companies should use USB-C”, they are saying “the industry should agree on a connector, and all should use that”.
They went to the companies that are key players in the market and asked “what connectors do you think should be used right now?”, and the companies said “USB-C”, so that’s what it’s used.
If in the future a better connector appears and the industry wants to change to it, they have to tell the EU “Now we want to use connector XYZ”, and that will be what everybody use. The standard is set by the industry, not the EU.
The EU knows what it’s doing. They don’t claim to know better than the industry. They just want the industry to do things that favor the consumer, not screw them to favor themselves…
American consumers are used at being screwed by companies that only see for the benefit of their shareholders. It doesn’t matter if the consumer has to spend more, or produce more waste. That’s not how the EU want things. Consumers and the environment are a priority here, not only shareholders returns.
If the EU knows what it’s doing, why are they only using phone OSes from US based companies? I’d argue that they don’t know what they are doing at all considering they have made extremely little contribution to the space and yet want to regulate those products. Imagine the kind of trash they would have to use if the US companies pulled out of the EU.
You’re talking about technological advancements, I’m talking about market regulation and the environment. If the price for technological advances is to let companies pollute and destroy the Earth, I don’t want it, sorry. I prefer a slower pace, but not destroy the only planet we have. And I’m saying this from a record braking temperatures summer. And I’m not even mentioning other things we do differently in the EU, because if we start comparing, it becomes rather unfair, and i’m not looking to humiliate people.
And I’m not saying those changes are necessarily negative, I’m saying that the EU is overreaching when they contribute very little at this point. And if you really want to talk about how you “do things differently”, without the US you’d all be using PutinPhones in 2030 and have no environmental regulations at all lol.
If you’re worried about the environment you should be looking at industrial waste from China, not Apple phones.
That’s the difference. You think the EU is “overreaching”. I think the EU is putting necessary regulations to companies that are prone to cross the line again and again.
That Volkswagen cheats in the emission tests? Here comes the EU sanctions. That Meta spies on people without letting them know? Start paying the fines! That Google abuses its privilege position to eliminate competition? Behave or pay the price. The EU keeps companies in line, and as a result, we have a healthier market. That’s how things are done here…
And please, don’t mention Putin. Our tanks and weapons are used in Ukraine as well as the American ones. NATO is a thing, you know?
Because if it’s done right, a single USB-C charger and cable is all you’ll need, instead of 2 or three different chargers. You buy less things, less trash out there polluting the environment. And it’s not like Apple hasn’t made you throw charging cables before… remember the 30-pin connector?
The fact that you need to buy a special cable to connect an iPhone to a MacBook (for example) should be a motivation enough for the change.
Apple has moved most of their products to USB-C, except the iPhone, and the only explanation possible is that using Lighting is profitable for them, even if it’s not convenient for users. Not all iPhone users are Mac users, and as you said, there are more iPhone users than mac users. All those iPhone users (and Mac users that use iPhones) are forced to buy cables from Apple or an authorized MFi manufacturer) that money will be gone with USB-C, as you’ll be able to use any cable brand you want.
On my part, I’m glad they’re being forced to do it. They seem more worried on incrementing their pile on money than doing something that may benefit their customers, in this case. So, good riddance lightning cables! You won’t be missed. And thanks EU, for doing it.
Apple makes as much good and reasonable decisions as they make questionable ones.
But why could that be? Simple, they make what interest and benefits THEM first. And if it incidentally benefits the customers, fine. If not, people will go up in arms, but they don’t care because they know that in the end, they’re powerless and will keep buying their products.
They don’t care if customers have to change accessories (the move to Lightning is the proof), they change things, or use new standards as long as it benefits THEM in any way, or is in their interest. All those changes you mentioned benefited THEM, and in some cases, the customers too, but in others, they didn’t and then customers got upset.
And they simply don’t want to change to USB-C on the iPhone because it’s not beneficial for them, it just benefits the customers. And that’s, in my opinion, all that there’s to it. And again, I’m glad that, for a change, they’ll be forced to do something that benefits the customers and not them.
Lightning was better that the 30-pin one. Or maybe the first iterations of USB-C. These days, USB-C is way more capable, technically, than Lightning, and that’s why the industry use it so massively (even Apple for other products).
They don’t charge it because it will only benefit consumers, but not the company. And they only care for things that benefit them, irregardless of it benefiting the customers.
I don’t know what makes any company make the decisions they do, but it’s easy to see that lightning is a better connector for a phone.
You’re right that usbc supports more lanes and by extension a higher transfer speed and that usbc has a higher voltage power delivery standard.
The better physical port to have on a phone is lightning. It’s more durable, easier to clean, and the cable breaks instead of the port.
The environment phones live in makes those much more important than faster transfers and charging speed (every phone I’ve dealt with from any manufacturer actually throttles back the charging speed to save the battery!).
So while usbc has significant advantages over lightning, it’s physically a bad port to have on a device that’s hanging around in your pocket and that makes it worse.
“Everything must have USB-C” sounds great right now, but what about when it gets old and slow or something better comes a long that is worth the switch… we have to wait for the EU to tell everyone it’s ok and make a transition plan for the whole industry?
The entire point of the USB-C thing is so there is a standard charging port across all mobile devices. I doubt this is some sort of attempt at regulating the technology itself. If something faster comes along then it will organically become the new industry standard, just as every other USB charging port up to this point(e.g micro USB, mini USB). Apple is the outlier because they’ve kept their proprietary charging port for years, for the sole purpose of being able to set their own price for cables, dongles, etc… and preventing people from buying cheaper 3rd party options.
I don’t thing legislating them is the right thing to do. Politicians are not technologists, nor do they have any insight into future product roadmaps.
Without regulations we’d have child labour. Companies only care about profit, and will do their best to get that, and gladly sacrifice customer satisfaction and employee health as far as they believe they can get away with it.
Without regulations companies and employers would screw over their customers and employees left and right. We know this because that’s the reality we live in today.
I agree that politicians tend to be both technologically inept and slow as hell to act, but currently that’s the lesser evil.
I’d also that 3rd party app stores provide less consumer choice. Right now I have the choice of a platform with a walled garden or one with 3rd party app stores. The EU is trying to take away that choice.
This makes no sense. You can opt out of third party stores on both platforms. Adding a choice will never take something away.
Well, no. The app store will come preinstalled on all phones still, meaning as a developer it’s in your interest to publish on the first-party store if you want as wide an audience as possible. It might be true that some apps will migrate away from the app store because of Apple’s draconian and unresponsive review system, but that’s really on them. I don’t think most people will though.
It does also open up for things like Microsoft’s Game Stream to get an official non-browser app, since Apple currently prohibits that from launching on the app store due to it not meeting their regulatory standards.
Feel like that’s a bit comparing apples to oranges. Apps weren’t originally acquired through some store on Macs, that’s a fairly novel thing. There were package managers and such before that but you’d more or less always get software from the vendor. Disregarding that the original iPhones didn’t have apps, as long as apps have been a thing they’ve always come from the app store.
Sure you can root it and get apps from Cydia and whatnot (if that’s still around) but I really don’t think many apps will migrate away, at least not fully. Users are lazy, and installing a separate app store or getting an app elsewhere is too much work for some. I don’t think you and I fall into that category given the platform we’re having this conversation on, but the fediverse is “too unapproachable” for a lot of people, even tech savvy ones, because you can’t simply download an app and sign up.
I’m in favour of third party app stores (or just the ability to install apps through the browser, no store attached) simply because I’m miffed my Apple TV cannot run Xbox Game Stream.
Yeah the iPhone was definitely out a bit too early with aiming for webapps. Now the tools and APIs are really mature so webapps are more of an option, but back then? Goodness I dread to think.
Not being 16, I have different priorities and I like that there is an option in the market that serves those priorities rather well.
I feel this, and it’s in large parts why I chose to swap from Android to iOS when I got fed up with manually fixing my OnePlus One back in 2020. I spent 8 hours a day working with tech as it is, I don’t want to spend my free-time tweaking Linux or flashing ROMs to my phone.
Time will tell how the third party app stores will turn out, if they turn out at all that is. Apple might still find a way to severely limit them, like restricting API access to apps not installed through the first party app store, or something similar.
For profit company’s aren’t “technologists” either. The non removable battery’s aren’t there for the consumers benefits, they are there to take more control over the repair market … and make more profit. Not to be more techy.
USB c is what almost everyone except for Apple has kind of agreed on anyways (except for parts the notebook market and some older tech that still uses micro usb for some reason)
It’s not like in 2004, where Sony Ericsson, Nokia, Motorola and so on each had their own plugs…
And take a look at the PC market, where USB has been a thing since 1996 (I definitely did not have to google that *cough cough) ofc the plug evolved, but the design stayed the same so that you can plug 27 year old usb peripherals into your new shiny gaming PC. And I’ve had phones with USB c since 2016/17, so that has also been around for quite a while now.
About the 3rd party apps I can say: you are always free to stay within the “walled garden”. Not just on Apple, but on Android as well.
If it wasn’t for privacy I wouldn’t need 3rd party stores at all as Google Play features almost every (legal) Android app in existence. 3rd party apps give me the opportunity to choose between a big tech store and a community open source alternative. Having store monopoly increases the risk of dictating “agreements” & levies to app devs who need to submit to get their software to the end user.
I actually do have devices that old. The connector and communications protocol outlived the drivers. It’ll be recognized as some sort of USB device, but I can never use it without a VM running an ancient guest OS.
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Maybe you should try reading what’s proposed…
The EU is not saying “companies should use USB-C”, they are saying “the industry should agree on a connector, and all should use that”.
They went to the companies that are key players in the market and asked “what connectors do you think should be used right now?”, and the companies said “USB-C”, so that’s what it’s used.
If in the future a better connector appears and the industry wants to change to it, they have to tell the EU “Now we want to use connector XYZ”, and that will be what everybody use. The standard is set by the industry, not the EU.
The EU knows what it’s doing. They don’t claim to know better than the industry. They just want the industry to do things that favor the consumer, not screw them to favor themselves…
American consumers are used at being screwed by companies that only see for the benefit of their shareholders. It doesn’t matter if the consumer has to spend more, or produce more waste. That’s not how the EU want things. Consumers and the environment are a priority here, not only shareholders returns.
I do agree on this, the EU doesn’t just blindly fly out with a proposal, they actually do research before they plan on passing anything.
If the EU knows what it’s doing, why are they only using phone OSes from US based companies? I’d argue that they don’t know what they are doing at all considering they have made extremely little contribution to the space and yet want to regulate those products. Imagine the kind of trash they would have to use if the US companies pulled out of the EU.
You’re talking about technological advancements, I’m talking about market regulation and the environment. If the price for technological advances is to let companies pollute and destroy the Earth, I don’t want it, sorry. I prefer a slower pace, but not destroy the only planet we have. And I’m saying this from a record braking temperatures summer. And I’m not even mentioning other things we do differently in the EU, because if we start comparing, it becomes rather unfair, and i’m not looking to humiliate people.
And I’m not saying those changes are necessarily negative, I’m saying that the EU is overreaching when they contribute very little at this point. And if you really want to talk about how you “do things differently”, without the US you’d all be using PutinPhones in 2030 and have no environmental regulations at all lol.
If you’re worried about the environment you should be looking at industrial waste from China, not Apple phones.
That’s the difference. You think the EU is “overreaching”. I think the EU is putting necessary regulations to companies that are prone to cross the line again and again.
That Volkswagen cheats in the emission tests? Here comes the EU sanctions. That Meta spies on people without letting them know? Start paying the fines! That Google abuses its privilege position to eliminate competition? Behave or pay the price. The EU keeps companies in line, and as a result, we have a healthier market. That’s how things are done here…
And please, don’t mention Putin. Our tanks and weapons are used in Ukraine as well as the American ones. NATO is a thing, you know?
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Because if it’s done right, a single USB-C charger and cable is all you’ll need, instead of 2 or three different chargers. You buy less things, less trash out there polluting the environment. And it’s not like Apple hasn’t made you throw charging cables before… remember the 30-pin connector?
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The fact that you need to buy a special cable to connect an iPhone to a MacBook (for example) should be a motivation enough for the change.
Apple has moved most of their products to USB-C, except the iPhone, and the only explanation possible is that using Lighting is profitable for them, even if it’s not convenient for users. Not all iPhone users are Mac users, and as you said, there are more iPhone users than mac users. All those iPhone users (and Mac users that use iPhones) are forced to buy cables from Apple or an authorized MFi manufacturer) that money will be gone with USB-C, as you’ll be able to use any cable brand you want.
On my part, I’m glad they’re being forced to do it. They seem more worried on incrementing their pile on money than doing something that may benefit their customers, in this case. So, good riddance lightning cables! You won’t be missed. And thanks EU, for doing it.
deleted by creator
Apple makes as much good and reasonable decisions as they make questionable ones.
But why could that be? Simple, they make what interest and benefits THEM first. And if it incidentally benefits the customers, fine. If not, people will go up in arms, but they don’t care because they know that in the end, they’re powerless and will keep buying their products.
They don’t care if customers have to change accessories (the move to Lightning is the proof), they change things, or use new standards as long as it benefits THEM in any way, or is in their interest. All those changes you mentioned benefited THEM, and in some cases, the customers too, but in others, they didn’t and then customers got upset.
And they simply don’t want to change to USB-C on the iPhone because it’s not beneficial for them, it just benefits the customers. And that’s, in my opinion, all that there’s to it. And again, I’m glad that, for a change, they’ll be forced to do something that benefits the customers and not them.
Hope that clears the point.
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The other explanation for lightning on the phone is that it’s a better connector for a phone.
It’s simpler, easier to clean, more durable and is designed to break the cable instead of the phone when twisted or bent.
Lightning was better that the 30-pin one. Or maybe the first iterations of USB-C. These days, USB-C is way more capable, technically, than Lightning, and that’s why the industry use it so massively (even Apple for other products).
They don’t charge it because it will only benefit consumers, but not the company. And they only care for things that benefit them, irregardless of it benefiting the customers.
I don’t know what makes any company make the decisions they do, but it’s easy to see that lightning is a better connector for a phone.
You’re right that usbc supports more lanes and by extension a higher transfer speed and that usbc has a higher voltage power delivery standard.
The better physical port to have on a phone is lightning. It’s more durable, easier to clean, and the cable breaks instead of the port.
The environment phones live in makes those much more important than faster transfers and charging speed (every phone I’ve dealt with from any manufacturer actually throttles back the charging speed to save the battery!).
So while usbc has significant advantages over lightning, it’s physically a bad port to have on a device that’s hanging around in your pocket and that makes it worse.
The entire point of the USB-C thing is so there is a standard charging port across all mobile devices. I doubt this is some sort of attempt at regulating the technology itself. If something faster comes along then it will organically become the new industry standard, just as every other USB charging port up to this point(e.g micro USB, mini USB). Apple is the outlier because they’ve kept their proprietary charging port for years, for the sole purpose of being able to set their own price for cables, dongles, etc… and preventing people from buying cheaper 3rd party options.
deleted by creator
Without regulations we’d have child labour. Companies only care about profit, and will do their best to get that, and gladly sacrifice customer satisfaction and employee health as far as they believe they can get away with it.
Without regulations companies and employers would screw over their customers and employees left and right. We know this because that’s the reality we live in today.
I agree that politicians tend to be both technologically inept and slow as hell to act, but currently that’s the lesser evil.
This makes no sense. You can opt out of third party stores on both platforms. Adding a choice will never take something away.
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Well, no. The app store will come preinstalled on all phones still, meaning as a developer it’s in your interest to publish on the first-party store if you want as wide an audience as possible. It might be true that some apps will migrate away from the app store because of Apple’s draconian and unresponsive review system, but that’s really on them. I don’t think most people will though.
It does also open up for things like Microsoft’s Game Stream to get an official non-browser app, since Apple currently prohibits that from launching on the app store due to it not meeting their regulatory standards.
deleted by creator
Feel like that’s a bit comparing apples to oranges. Apps weren’t originally acquired through some store on Macs, that’s a fairly novel thing. There were package managers and such before that but you’d more or less always get software from the vendor. Disregarding that the original iPhones didn’t have apps, as long as apps have been a thing they’ve always come from the app store.
Sure you can root it and get apps from Cydia and whatnot (if that’s still around) but I really don’t think many apps will migrate away, at least not fully. Users are lazy, and installing a separate app store or getting an app elsewhere is too much work for some. I don’t think you and I fall into that category given the platform we’re having this conversation on, but the fediverse is “too unapproachable” for a lot of people, even tech savvy ones, because you can’t simply download an app and sign up.
I’m in favour of third party app stores (or just the ability to install apps through the browser, no store attached) simply because I’m miffed my Apple TV cannot run Xbox Game Stream.
deleted by creator
Yeah the iPhone was definitely out a bit too early with aiming for webapps. Now the tools and APIs are really mature so webapps are more of an option, but back then? Goodness I dread to think.
I feel this, and it’s in large parts why I chose to swap from Android to iOS when I got fed up with manually fixing my OnePlus One back in 2020. I spent 8 hours a day working with tech as it is, I don’t want to spend my free-time tweaking Linux or flashing ROMs to my phone.
Time will tell how the third party app stores will turn out, if they turn out at all that is. Apple might still find a way to severely limit them, like restricting API access to apps not installed through the first party app store, or something similar.
For profit company’s aren’t “technologists” either. The non removable battery’s aren’t there for the consumers benefits, they are there to take more control over the repair market … and make more profit. Not to be more techy.
It’s all about market control/money.
USB c is what almost everyone except for Apple has kind of agreed on anyways (except for parts the notebook market and some older tech that still uses micro usb for some reason)
It’s not like in 2004, where Sony Ericsson, Nokia, Motorola and so on each had their own plugs…
And take a look at the PC market, where USB has been a thing since 1996 (I definitely did not have to google that *cough cough) ofc the plug evolved, but the design stayed the same so that you can plug 27 year old usb peripherals into your new shiny gaming PC. And I’ve had phones with USB c since 2016/17, so that has also been around for quite a while now.
About the 3rd party apps I can say: you are always free to stay within the “walled garden”. Not just on Apple, but on Android as well.
If it wasn’t for privacy I wouldn’t need 3rd party stores at all as Google Play features almost every (legal) Android app in existence. 3rd party apps give me the opportunity to choose between a big tech store and a community open source alternative. Having store monopoly increases the risk of dictating “agreements” & levies to app devs who need to submit to get their software to the end user.
I actually do have devices that old. The connector and communications protocol outlived the drivers. It’ll be recognized as some sort of USB device, but I can never use it without a VM running an ancient guest OS.