Not everyone in Jáchymov was innocent. Many people were, however. Nobody deserves to die in inhumane conditions after mining uranium for political reasons. In nazi concentration camps, there were also some people who wasn’t innocent. That doesn’t justify the existence of these monstrous places.
Mašín brothers commited murders and are not heroes. But maybe if communists didn’t build electric fences around country (they were saying is great place to live in, so why would anybody want to escape), Mašíns would just leave the country.
Milada Horáková did nothing illegal. She was against communists and she protested against them taking over the country. She didn’t lead anti government activities. Can you please tell me what activities did she do? Especially activities for which she deserves being strangled for more than 13 minutes?
Please, go to https://www.pametnaroda.cz/cs/archive, watch listen to some of the thousands of people talking about what they experienced. Some of them cannot hold tears when they talk about communists murdered their loved ones or did other things I have already mentioned. Then tell me how it’s all fake or far-fetched.
Možno to nevieš ale koncentrák kde zomrelo milióny ľudí je odlišný od pracovného táboru na ťaženie uránia. Horáková bola antikomunista a reakcionár a neexistuje dôkaz že bola nevinná. A nepotrebujem Pamäť Národa aby mi hovorili ako sa počas komunistov žilo a čo si mám o nich myslieť. Celá moja rodina žila v Československu a z ich rozprávania si viem vytvoriť vlastný názor nepotrebujem na to vládnu antikomunistickú organizáciu. A nehovoria o ňom vždy v najlepšom, moja rodina bola a je veriaca čiže ti nemusím hovoriť aké to mali niekedy ťažké ale aj tak o ČSSR hovoria pozitívne. Čím to môže byť možno preto že ČSSR zaručila prácu všetkým občanom, elekrifikovala a plynofikovala krajinu, v každom meste postavila továreň, postavila vodné a tepelné elektrárne, postavila nemocnice, zdravotné strediská a zaistila bezplatnú zdravotnú starostlivosť, postavila obrovské množstvo cenovo dostupných bytov ktoré dnes majú takú cenu že hypotéku treba splácať celý život, vybudovala pionierské tábory, postavila dialnice, do dôchodku sa odchádzalo v 60 niekedy aj skôr, zabezpečila sebestačnosť vo výrobe potravín. Ukáž mi jediný národ našej veľkosti ktorý dokázal vyvíjať a vyrábať prúdové lietadlá, dopravné lietadlá, atómové reaktory, lokomotívy, trolejbusy, autobusy, traktory, radary, motocykle, automobily, špičkové zbrane, tkáčske stroje, poľnohospodárske stroje, obrovské turbíny, námorné lode, tanky, špičkové sklárske a porcelánové výrobky, podieľať sa na vesmírnom výskume a vyrábať kvalitnú oceľ a hútnické výrobky. Dnes nevyvíjame nič sme iba montovňa automobilov.(You may not know this, but a concentration camp where millions of people died is different from a work camp for uranium mining. Horáková was an anti-communist and a reactionary, and there is no proof that she was innocent. And I don’t need the Memory of the Nation to tell me how life was under the communists and what I should think about them. My whole family lived in Czechoslovakia and I can form my own opinion from their stories, I don’t need a government anti-communist organization for that. And they don’t always talk about him in the best way, my family was and is a religious, so I don’t have to tell you how hard it was at times, but they still talk positively about the Czechoslovakia. Why can this be because the Czechoslovak Republic guaranteed work for all citizens, electrified and gasified the country, built a factory in every city, built water and thermal power plants, built hospitals, health centers and ensured free health care, built a huge number of affordable apartments that they have today such a price that the mortgage has to be paid off throughout life, built pioneer camps, built highways, people retired at 60 sometimes even earlier, ensured self-sufficiency in food production. Show me a single nation of our size that has been able to develop and manufacture jet planes, airliners, nuclear reactors, locomotives, trolleybuses, buses, tractors, radars, motorcycles, automobiles, high-tech weapons, weaving machines, agricultural machinery, giant turbines, naval ships, tanks , glass and porcelain products, participate in space research and produce quality steel and metallurgical products. Today we are not developing anything, we are just a car assembly plant.)
I’m not saying that Jáchymov and concentration camp are the same.
I’m saying that according to the statement of many people who were there, the conditions were similar. I’m also saying that in both cases, you can argue that not everyone there was innocent. The problem is that there were innocent people sent there on purpose.
Horáková was anti-communist. She was reactionary in the meaning that she wanted another political regime. Neither of these makes her guilty of anything. In any political regime, there are people against it. Even now, and we don’t hang them up. The fact that there is no proof she was innocent is a complete bullshit argument. If you have a presumption of innocence, it means nothing. If you have a presumption of guilt, I can say there’s no evidence of your grandma not secretly leading resistance. Any modern society requires evidence to prove somebody being guilty, not innocent.
Your family is one family. In the Memory of the nation’s archive, you can liten to thousands of people’s stories. By saying it’s an anti-communist organization, are you saying it’s fake? Do you think that the people are lying or what? There are also interviews with communists in their archives.
Czechoslovak Republic had a great economy. That’s certainly true, but at least for me, it doesn’t justify totalitarian regime with killing political enemies, locking the country behind the iron curtain and doing all the other things I have already written that you either ignore or marginalize. If all the things that were happening here are still worth for good economy for you, than this debate can be ended because we we can’t agree on that. If you do not believe it, even with all the proves and all the people saying it, if you think all the thousands of interviews by the Memory of the nation are fake, somebody has written all the tons of documents in the archive in Prague after revolution and made it all up for no actual reason, if you believe that somebody just made up all the information trails and museums and all of this was done and still is being done by the goverment even when communists are not a political threat for them and our government that is not very capable in most cases is able to keep this secret for years, and you believe it just because nobody from your family wasn’t falsely sentenced or executed or tortured or shot when trying to leave the country or anything else, this debate can also be ended because i’m not able to convince you about the opposite.
For me, it’s not that information is ‘made up’. It’s a question of emphasis and one-sidedness. And there is a reason for the dominant narrative. You said:
even when communists are not a political threat…
But this is false. Communists are and always will be a threat to liberals and fascists. They can be slandered, tortured, imprisoned, misrepresented, and killed. But they will never disappear. They will never stop fighting. And they will never be finally silenced. That is why capitalists spend so much money, time, and effort distorting history. This is the reason you’re looking for.
Not everyone in Jáchymov was innocent. Many people were, however. Nobody deserves to die in inhumane conditions after mining uranium for political reasons. In nazi concentration camps, there were also some people who wasn’t innocent. That doesn’t justify the existence of these monstrous places. Mašín brothers commited murders and are not heroes. But maybe if communists didn’t build electric fences around country (they were saying is great place to live in, so why would anybody want to escape), Mašíns would just leave the country. Milada Horáková did nothing illegal. She was against communists and she protested against them taking over the country. She didn’t lead anti government activities. Can you please tell me what activities did she do? Especially activities for which she deserves being strangled for more than 13 minutes? Please, go to https://www.pametnaroda.cz/cs/archive, watch listen to some of the thousands of people talking about what they experienced. Some of them cannot hold tears when they talk about communists murdered their loved ones or did other things I have already mentioned. Then tell me how it’s all fake or far-fetched.
Možno to nevieš ale koncentrák kde zomrelo milióny ľudí je odlišný od pracovného táboru na ťaženie uránia. Horáková bola antikomunista a reakcionár a neexistuje dôkaz že bola nevinná. A nepotrebujem Pamäť Národa aby mi hovorili ako sa počas komunistov žilo a čo si mám o nich myslieť. Celá moja rodina žila v Československu a z ich rozprávania si viem vytvoriť vlastný názor nepotrebujem na to vládnu antikomunistickú organizáciu. A nehovoria o ňom vždy v najlepšom, moja rodina bola a je veriaca čiže ti nemusím hovoriť aké to mali niekedy ťažké ale aj tak o ČSSR hovoria pozitívne. Čím to môže byť možno preto že ČSSR zaručila prácu všetkým občanom, elekrifikovala a plynofikovala krajinu, v každom meste postavila továreň, postavila vodné a tepelné elektrárne, postavila nemocnice, zdravotné strediská a zaistila bezplatnú zdravotnú starostlivosť, postavila obrovské množstvo cenovo dostupných bytov ktoré dnes majú takú cenu že hypotéku treba splácať celý život, vybudovala pionierské tábory, postavila dialnice, do dôchodku sa odchádzalo v 60 niekedy aj skôr, zabezpečila sebestačnosť vo výrobe potravín. Ukáž mi jediný národ našej veľkosti ktorý dokázal vyvíjať a vyrábať prúdové lietadlá, dopravné lietadlá, atómové reaktory, lokomotívy, trolejbusy, autobusy, traktory, radary, motocykle, automobily, špičkové zbrane, tkáčske stroje, poľnohospodárske stroje, obrovské turbíny, námorné lode, tanky, špičkové sklárske a porcelánové výrobky, podieľať sa na vesmírnom výskume a vyrábať kvalitnú oceľ a hútnické výrobky. Dnes nevyvíjame nič sme iba montovňa automobilov.(You may not know this, but a concentration camp where millions of people died is different from a work camp for uranium mining. Horáková was an anti-communist and a reactionary, and there is no proof that she was innocent. And I don’t need the Memory of the Nation to tell me how life was under the communists and what I should think about them. My whole family lived in Czechoslovakia and I can form my own opinion from their stories, I don’t need a government anti-communist organization for that. And they don’t always talk about him in the best way, my family was and is a religious, so I don’t have to tell you how hard it was at times, but they still talk positively about the Czechoslovakia. Why can this be because the Czechoslovak Republic guaranteed work for all citizens, electrified and gasified the country, built a factory in every city, built water and thermal power plants, built hospitals, health centers and ensured free health care, built a huge number of affordable apartments that they have today such a price that the mortgage has to be paid off throughout life, built pioneer camps, built highways, people retired at 60 sometimes even earlier, ensured self-sufficiency in food production. Show me a single nation of our size that has been able to develop and manufacture jet planes, airliners, nuclear reactors, locomotives, trolleybuses, buses, tractors, radars, motorcycles, automobiles, high-tech weapons, weaving machines, agricultural machinery, giant turbines, naval ships, tanks , glass and porcelain products, participate in space research and produce quality steel and metallurgical products. Today we are not developing anything, we are just a car assembly plant.)
I’m not saying that Jáchymov and concentration camp are the same. I’m saying that according to the statement of many people who were there, the conditions were similar. I’m also saying that in both cases, you can argue that not everyone there was innocent. The problem is that there were innocent people sent there on purpose. Horáková was anti-communist. She was reactionary in the meaning that she wanted another political regime. Neither of these makes her guilty of anything. In any political regime, there are people against it. Even now, and we don’t hang them up. The fact that there is no proof she was innocent is a complete bullshit argument. If you have a presumption of innocence, it means nothing. If you have a presumption of guilt, I can say there’s no evidence of your grandma not secretly leading resistance. Any modern society requires evidence to prove somebody being guilty, not innocent. Your family is one family. In the Memory of the nation’s archive, you can liten to thousands of people’s stories. By saying it’s an anti-communist organization, are you saying it’s fake? Do you think that the people are lying or what? There are also interviews with communists in their archives. Czechoslovak Republic had a great economy. That’s certainly true, but at least for me, it doesn’t justify totalitarian regime with killing political enemies, locking the country behind the iron curtain and doing all the other things I have already written that you either ignore or marginalize. If all the things that were happening here are still worth for good economy for you, than this debate can be ended because we we can’t agree on that. If you do not believe it, even with all the proves and all the people saying it, if you think all the thousands of interviews by the Memory of the nation are fake, somebody has written all the tons of documents in the archive in Prague after revolution and made it all up for no actual reason, if you believe that somebody just made up all the information trails and museums and all of this was done and still is being done by the goverment even when communists are not a political threat for them and our government that is not very capable in most cases is able to keep this secret for years, and you believe it just because nobody from your family wasn’t falsely sentenced or executed or tortured or shot when trying to leave the country or anything else, this debate can also be ended because i’m not able to convince you about the opposite.
For me, it’s not that information is ‘made up’. It’s a question of emphasis and one-sidedness. And there is a reason for the dominant narrative. You said:
But this is false. Communists are and always will be a threat to liberals and fascists. They can be slandered, tortured, imprisoned, misrepresented, and killed. But they will never disappear. They will never stop fighting. And they will never be finally silenced. That is why capitalists spend so much money, time, and effort distorting history. This is the reason you’re looking for.