Fwiw, am a really thrifty/frugal broke near hermit
Depression’s improved to the point I’m not concerned with it being a risk to myself and am currently nogunz except for varmint air guns
Considering dropping like two grand on a nice rifle 
and equipment and training with it alongside my gym routine
Debating getting either a KUSA KR-101X or a Keltec RFB and an optic and chest rig/plates and pouches, spare mags, etc for either
The KR-101X is a 5.56 AKM/74 clone that takes AR mags and looks pretty good from what I’ve seen, the RFB is a .308 bullpup DMR (I’m kinda a tankie and a big Halo dork, so both have their appeals)
Live in a state with a 10 round mag restriction, so that’s leaning me towards the RFB.
Thoughts?
Dunno if there’s a loophole for larger mags or a SBR “pistol” 
that might be a better option
Am I being a dumbass?
Should I get a pistol or a .22LR plinker first? Should I not drop a used car price on a rifle I might never have to actually use aside from playing at the range and running drills as a hobby?
@[email protected] pls lend me your wisdom and recs
Try to be really honest with yourself about what scenario you are likely to encounter where firearms will be useful. Use that scenario to guide your choices. That said, here’s some general advice: get a cheap AR (maybe not the absolute cheapest) in .556 (also shoots .223), sights upgrade (perhaps a red dot/holo sight). Get a 9mm pistol (Glock or similar). A few boxes of defensive ammo for each (green tip .556, and hollow point 9mm) and a bunch of cheap target ammo for both for practicing. Get a couple of trauma kits and learn how to use them. Plates would be low on my list, but this will depend on the imagined scenario(s). Leftover money? Duplicate the set since another armed comrade is worth way more than one Gucci AK.
The most expensive thing over time will be ammo. If you don’t mind having multiple guns and all the fees that might entail, dropping $100 on a cheap 22 rifle and $250 on a tx22 will pay for itself in a dozen range trips. 22 can be found for ~5cpr, whereas 556 is gonna be ~50cpr and 308 ~70cpr.
AK is for style only and imo you can self express other ways. The cost difference between a decent AR and an equivalent or worse AK is better spent on sites, slings, mags, a gun safe, and training.
Word. Getting some snap caps for dry fire drills and practicing clearing malfunctions is a good choice. Get a dedicated mag just for drills, mark it with blaze orange, and store it with your snap caps separately from all live ammunition.
Make it a top priority to get good sights and learn how to use them
This. Most modern rifles are going to be more accurate than their user. A general rule is expect to spend about as much on glass as you did on the rifle, though good red-dots have come down dramatically in price over the yeras.
Any suggestions for a good reasonably priced red dot/holo sight? Now I’m kinda leaning towards a decent AR and using some of the Gucci gun money on an optic. Red dot/holo over a low power scope? Adjustable variable zoom red dots might be the way to go. Still kinda leaning towards the RFB since I live somewhere with 10 round mag restriction law and I kinda feel like you may as well go for .308 if you’re limited to ten rounds, but it’s pricier to train with
Low power variable optics were the cool thing a year or two ago. I’d check reviews for what’s good in 2024, I haven’t been paying as much attention lately. Trijicon, Aimpoint, and EOTech are going to be your bomb-proof tested by twenty years of imperialist wars gucci options. Vortex is a solid mid-range. I think Holosun is good, too, but you’d want to check reviews. The Romeo 5 or 6 or whatever is cheap if you just need to slap something on a gun. More money will usually buy you better lenses, stronger housings that resist water and impact, and mechanisms that will keep the dot from drifting off target even after hundreds of rounds and some abuse.
Also - Before you put money down on a red dot figure out whether or not you have astigmatism. With astigmatism the irregularity in the lens of your eye scatters the laser light so instead of a neat clean round dot you get a starburst shape and you can’t really use the red dot. It varies from person to person based on the shape and severity of your astigmatism, so some people with mild astigmatism can still use red dots whereas I just can’t. In that case you’ll want to go with a holographic sight or an etched glass illuminated sight of some kind.
As for LPVOs you’re on your own. The one I have I don’t think it’s even manufactured now. But they’re popular because they’re almost as good at close range as red dots but you can throw the lever to get 4x, 6x, or 8x zoom with depending on the model. Having a “red dot” for close range and a low power magnification on the same optic is nice. Usually a bit heavier than a red dot, in exchange for versatility.
You should also think about back-up irons. I advocate for having a set of iron sights on your rifle because if everything else goes wrong the iron sights will still work. A lot of people don’t bother with them because modern red-dots are very reliable and have absurdly long battery life. It’s up to you.
Thanks for all the advice
Any reason you want an ak pattern over an ar pattern? An ak that shoots 5.56 and uses stanags seems overcomplicated compared to getting an ar.
1500$ is an extremely expensive rifle if you’re not an enthusiast. You can get a PSA ar15 for 5-700$ and it’ll go bang every time and leave you money for glass, upgrades, mags, and other stuff.
Plus, ars have vastly more aftermarket parts and if your gun breaks it’ll be a lot easier to get ar replacement parts than ak replacement parts.
I’ll always advocate for a basic ar15 for a first gun
- ammo compatibility, 5.56 is plentiful
- you can share mags with other ars
- it’s easy to get parts
- tons of aftermarket crap if you want that
Sbr “pistols” are a gimmick for dorks who want to be operators and think they’re smarter than the atf. The reduced weight can be nice but you’re making your life much more difficult with all the regulatory bs in exchange for like 6" or something of shorter barrel. A carbine length rifle is good enough for anything you’d ever need.
Regardless, guns are worse than useless without regular practice. You gotta commit to doing dry fire practice, working on clearing jams, range time, and probably learning a little bit about squad level rifleman tactics. If you don’t put in the practice and education you won’t be able to fight at all.
Also - before you even buy a gun - take a stop the bleed course, get some na rescue tourniquettes and learn how to use them, get a basic “someone has been shot” first aid kit together. Statistically you’re much more likely to kill or injure yourself than you are to ever use your gun in any defensive situation. Having a good first aid kit, practicing with it, and knowing how to use it is at least as important as a gun right now.
You can get a drop-in .22lr bolt for ar pattern rifle so you can practice with much less expensive .22lr instead of 5.56. Idk how much they cost these days but they used to be under 200$
Oh, you also need to consider safe storage. Check the laws in your area to see what storage requirements exist and factor that in to your costs.
Thank you, that’s a factor too
Any reason you want an ak pattern over an ar pattern?
I just think they’re neat
An AR pattern is much more practical though
Plus if I want a bullpup, I think there are options that take AR parts
Could even get a Wylde barrel in order to shoot 223 and 556. Not sure if that’s an option with the AK platform but it’s nice to know that my AR will eat either cartridge all day.
I gotta look that up for the KR-101X
A .300BLK AK that takes AR mags and fits a can out of the box might be ideal
For ARs nowadays I think .300 “blackout” sounded appealing.
I’ve never shot 5.56 somehow. Lapua, BMG, 7.62x39, 7.62x54, and some shotgun/pistol calibers I’m uncertain of.
Just get 5.56. Blackout is for running suppressors and being a cool operator dude.
My advice is always going to be to get the most boring and common gun.
Can confirm. I did some range time with suppressed 300BLK and I did feel like a cool operator dude.
Co-signing to get 5.56. 300BLK is expensive AF to shoot.
Everyone already told you not to buy an ak for a million good reasons, let me add another:
The cmmg ar 22lr bolt conversion.
You pop the upper off, pull the bolt out, put in the conversion and you can feed cheap 22lr out of its specialty magazines.
It’s not as accurate and can wear your barrel (people say, I haven’t experienced anything) and the gun doesn’t handle exactly the same, but for some kind of handling training and practice it really makes things cheaper and can help people get over the loudness and controls hump.
Second. It’ll pay for itself if you’re training as much ss you ought to.
SHTF rifle
5.56NATO AR15 if you want to have the possibility of finding a replacement bolt carrier in a crisis situation.
This or be your own logistics corp and buy extra parts ahead of time
A .22LR plinker is always a great choice. The ammunition is the cheapest and you can shoot it all day without hurting or going broke. It’s a great way to improve your overall technique and accuracy. If you get a rifle and a pistol, you can develop both skills with the same ammo, probably for less than a good 9mm pistol. In the mean time, if you go to some ranges with a friend you can rent something to try it out to see what you’re comfortable with.
I haven’t bought a gun in several years, so I’m not really sure what prices are like rn.
Worth going to gun shops and pawn shops to see if they have a cheap ruger 10/22. Idk what prices are like now but a few years ago you could sometimes find them under 200, sometimes with upgrades already insyalled.
Ruger 10/22 is the best way to start. Teaches you all the basics, cheap, and malfunctions more than any AR I’ve fired from the get-go, so you’ll at least get experience clearing jams. Good range of mag sizes
Probably cheaper from a pawn shop, but they are very cheap new (for a gun).
A .22LR plinker is always a great choice. The ammunition is the cheapest and you can shoot it all day without hurting or going broke. It’s a great way to improve your overall technique and accuracy.
I cannot possibly repeat this louder! Habits are more important than hardware, so make them affordable. Like a bicycle you can move from gun platform to platform once you hammer out the basics.
Probably “when you start chasing diminishing gains relative to what your purpose for the weapon is”
Wise
I would honestly start out by getting a cheap AR15 like from PSA for around $500 and see how things go. You don’t really know enough to really buy something expensive. I mean that as in, you don’t know your own preferences - what you like and what you dislike, so it’s better to get something inexpensive to start and then figure out what you like and don’t like, then get something expensive.
The problem is most people go all out, buy something expensive, realize they don’t like it, then either sell it or it just sits in their safe gathering dust.
I’d look into a pistol first, the stuff your talking about is for a shooting war which I think is a bit far from happening at the moment. Gonna be cheaper of course but also much more useful in self-defense. You can buy a Glock clone for $350 to $400. I have a Turkish SAR 9mm that’s given me no issues and is quite affordable.
Is getting a used Makarov (or clone) or a Beretta Neos .22LR as a starter a dumb idea? A pistol is probably the most practical rn but I’m kinda yearning for a nice rifle and doing tacticool shit as part of my fitness routine
Either way I’m make myself get so fuckin’ good at point shooting cqc drills and fast mag changes
Probably am gonna get a laser and a target gizmo to fidget with and drill with in the house regardless of what I get
You’re not super likely to find a great deal on a Neos, I’ve been watching for years. A 22LR (target) pistol is a great thing to have and practice with though. Browning Buckmark & Ruger Mark-whatever they’re on now are kinda the gold standard. SW victory is fine. Taurus TX 22 works well after some fiddling. Dunno about the Keltec P17. Not a fan of Ruger’s SR22.
Yes, it’s a very poor idea. Makarovs are horrible guns. Get a glock, and if you don’t want a glock get a cz, and if you don’t want a cz get anything but some goofball museum piece.
See if any ranges in your area let you rent pistols to use on their range.
Also, i would recommend, if you’re going to do tacticool, balance your cqc stuff with infantry stuff like shooting at range, bounding, travelling over rough terrain, outdoors stuff. Cqc in a real pitched fight is mostly terrifying bullshit where everyone dies. It’s less “pie the corner” and more “blow a hole in the floor/wall/ceiling and drop grenades where you think the bad guys are until everyone is dead”. Tacticool cqc is for us army soldiers terrorizing unarmed civvies and larping cops kicking doors down for petty weed charges. Learning how to shoot at range and coordinate with a fire team will see you a lot further.
It’s important to decide: do you want a weapon or a toy? If you want a weapon get the most common, reliable thing you can. Ar15 for a rifle, and then a glock or another very common pistol for a side arm. A weapon needs to be easy to service and repair, it needs to eat the most common ammo around, and being able to share parts, ammo, and mags with your buddies isn’t bad.
Thank you, very helpful
A 22 anything is a good idea for shooting practice because any AR pattern and especially AK pattern cartridges are so expensive. You can get a 22 revolver for less than $200 if you want real budget.
I would strongly advise against wheel guns for any reason. They’re beyond archaic now. If you just want a target gun get a ruger mk4 in .22
Or just get a cz or a glock, looks like you can get czs or used glocks for under 500 right now.
Hey! “For any reason” is taking it a bit too far, Frank.
Some of us want to feel like a cowboy
(There is no other valid reason to get a wheel gun)
Cowboy action shooting is very cool and i love watching the most normal looking dad bod people twitch and then there’s six holes in a target and it’s like how do people move that fast?
If I ever were to carry it’d would be a wheel gun, they are unfuckupable.
That’s the perception of them but they have more moving parts, more ways to break, and less reliability than a modern auto. And you’re also carrying six rounds with no magazine instead of the 19+1 modern full frame 9mm autos use. They’re great for cowboy action shooting and as range toys but there is absolutely no reason to carry them in to combat and lots of reasons not to.
imo the only reason to get a wheel gun is if there’s magazine capacity laws, it defeats the main semi advantage
I agree automatics are just as if not more reliable than a revolver but for personal protection I personally don’t wanna be carrying around such a big gun. A 5 shot hammerless 38 is my choice. I was raised by boomer gun nuts so I keep a lot of those sensibilities lol.
I will say in their defense, they make failures to fire a non-issue. The couple of times I got dud rounds in a wheelgun, I just pulled the trigger again and problem solved
Great, but you’re trading an advantage in a 1 in 100+ incident for all the advantages of an automatic. I’m not going to budge on this. Guns are tools for killing human beings rapidly and reliably. If you’re not carrying the most efficient weapon you can get access to you’re playing games with your life and the life of people around you.
I mean, I have like two grand squirreled away and was pining for a fancy rifle which is why I made the post lol
A 10/22 wouldn’t be a bad idea though, or a .22LR AR
I see I was leaning to much into the budget thing I guess. An AR despite being IMO the ugliest rifle God ever allowed to be made is prolly the best bet due to ammo and parts availability. As for the high capacity magazine ban I saw this wild stripper clip fed AR with an undetachable magazine used to get around those state bans.
They’re less ugly when spraypainted imo but yeah it’s true
If I could find any excuse at all mine would be cerakoted in barbie pink and bedazzled. : (
True, I talked to a gunsmith at a gun store a while ago and he showed me his AR-15 with wood furniture and a carry handle meant to look like the Service Rifle from Fallout New Vegas, that was pretty dope.
I’ve seen a few people make service rifles. They look really nice.
An AR despite being IMO the ugliest rifle God ever allowed to be made
Eh, the L86 is uglier imo
(so is the Groza, rare Soviet L imho)
The L86 is Britain’s latent guilt over the crimes of empire manifested as something that is technically a weapon.
You are correct bullpups are actually worse, with the L86 being a specifically uggo one.
Lurking this thread taught me a lot so thank u all
Ask any questions you’ve got there are a ton of very serious gun nuts on the left.
I lurk here all the time
I think I’m too depressed to ever own a gun tho lol but I am fascinated by the machinery, the social organization, the tactics of a unit, etc
Seconding; I LOVE talking about guns with folks who aren’t raging fascists.
(also had a friend that got a RAS-47 that had nothing but bad things to say about it and the experience of buying something that uses 7.62x39mm in the US, so I’d prefer not to do that)
(A .300BLK “pistol” and a tax can are appealing too)
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