Yeah - it’s an art to find the perfect mix between “sounds complicated enough that they zone out”, “sounds like stuff gets done” and “not making people ask if you need help with that”.
I’m not actually a programmer (/engineer) I’m just a hobbyist. I work in supply chain, have worked at 4 companies in 8 years - all had stand ups, all of them are like this.
Err… Is your team doing planning during standup? I’ve never heard of that, from either people who are on teams that use standups, or from any of the Agile/Scrum literature that I’ve seen. In my experience, standups are typically about either a) coordinating the execution of work that has already been committed to, or b) whoops just a status meeting and everybody’s tuned out.
Ah, I see how my wording was confusing. I mean planning in the sense of “How will we complete the work that we already committed to?” and “What will we do today to achieve our Sprint goal?”
I arrived at the word planning because Scrum is sometimes described as a planning-planning-feedback-feedback cycle. You plan the Sprint, you plan daily (Daily Scrums), you get feedback on your work (Sprint Review), and you get feedback on your process (Sprint Retrospective).
Thanks for explaining. I still think “planning” is a weird way to think about what’s supposed to happen during standup-- It seems to me that the whole purpose of working in sprints (and the rituals that that typically entails) is to plan ahead so that during the week you can execute on well-groomed, properly-scoped work. Of course when you notice something is wrong, or needs to be reconsidered, you might need to pull the brakes and realign mid-sprint, but my sense is that if you’re doing planning every day, that might mean that your work isn’t groomed well enough beforehand, or you’re not locking in important decisions during sprint planning.
But it might depend on the work, and it might depend on what you mean by “planning.” If your planning just looks like “Hey are you free to pair on issue 123 this afternoon? Okay sweet, I’ll throw a meeting in your calendar,” then yeah sure-- I wouldn’t use the word “planning” for that, but it’s not crazy to. Or maybe the work is different than my work, and actually does warrant some amount of day-level of planning that wouldn’t make sense for teams I’ve been on. I’m open to that, too.
(Btw I tried to look up this “planning planning feedback feedback cycle” thing and the only search results I got were THIS LEMMY THREAD, lol… Cool to see Lemmy show up in search results)
The purpose of stand up is to not listen to anything and say a sentence that no one listens to. It’s like a Buddhist meditation.
Yeah - it’s an art to find the perfect mix between “sounds complicated enough that they zone out”, “sounds like stuff gets done” and “not making people ask if you need help with that”.
Lemmy keeps it real.
lol I hope your standups are not actually like this! The purpose is to, as a team, plan what the team will do today to achieve the Sprint goal
I’m not actually a programmer (/engineer) I’m just a hobbyist. I work in supply chain, have worked at 4 companies in 8 years - all had stand ups, all of them are like this.
Err… Is your team doing planning during standup? I’ve never heard of that, from either people who are on teams that use standups, or from any of the Agile/Scrum literature that I’ve seen. In my experience, standups are typically about either a) coordinating the execution of work that has already been committed to, or b) whoops just a status meeting and everybody’s tuned out.
Ah, I see how my wording was confusing. I mean planning in the sense of “How will we complete the work that we already committed to?” and “What will we do today to achieve our Sprint goal?”
I arrived at the word planning because Scrum is sometimes described as a planning-planning-feedback-feedback cycle. You plan the Sprint, you plan daily (Daily Scrums), you get feedback on your work (Sprint Review), and you get feedback on your process (Sprint Retrospective).
Thanks for explaining. I still think “planning” is a weird way to think about what’s supposed to happen during standup-- It seems to me that the whole purpose of working in sprints (and the rituals that that typically entails) is to plan ahead so that during the week you can execute on well-groomed, properly-scoped work. Of course when you notice something is wrong, or needs to be reconsidered, you might need to pull the brakes and realign mid-sprint, but my sense is that if you’re doing planning every day, that might mean that your work isn’t groomed well enough beforehand, or you’re not locking in important decisions during sprint planning.
But it might depend on the work, and it might depend on what you mean by “planning.” If your planning just looks like “Hey are you free to pair on issue 123 this afternoon? Okay sweet, I’ll throw a meeting in your calendar,” then yeah sure-- I wouldn’t use the word “planning” for that, but it’s not crazy to. Or maybe the work is different than my work, and actually does warrant some amount of day-level of planning that wouldn’t make sense for teams I’ve been on. I’m open to that, too.
(Btw I tried to look up this “planning planning feedback feedback cycle” thing and the only search results I got were THIS LEMMY THREAD, lol… Cool to see Lemmy show up in search results)